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Old March 16th, 2013 #1
Mr A.Anderson
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Default Bug Out vs Bug In

This has been touched on several times in various threads, but is an important enough to warrant its own thread, IMO.

These are two very separate scenarios, that are completely different in the way you should approach them. Many people just lump it all under the title "prepping", but don't realize the differences between the two. Realistically, we should do our best to prepare for both situations, because we really don't know what form a SHTF scenario will take, and your decision to stay or leave will be based on many different factors.

Most people, whether they know it or not, prepare for a Bug In situation....at least here in America. We gather stores of food, water, ammunition, fuel, equipment such as generators, etc in our homes. We should all do this, as Whites, because something as simple as a natural disaster is a common occurrence and we should be prepared to sustain and protect our homes while basic services are not available and the rule of law breaks down for a short time period.

Preparing for a Bug In is as simple as thinking "What do I need if the power goes out for weeks because of a hurricane?".

The last two things that I need to purchase for a Bug In, are probably the two most important (and should have been the first two things I secured.) I will be remedying this as soon as I can find the items.

A way to heat the home and a way to procure water from our well.

Our house does not have a fireplace, so I am looking for a wood burner to install in the basement next to the oil furnace. The previous owners of our house had a wood burner installed at one point, so all the fluting is already there. An extended power outage during the winter months would be disastrous without this item.

Our home has a shallow well which I have located and looked at the piping. There is an elbow joint from the well head to the piping to the water jet pump. I will replace the elbow joint with a T-joint, and install and hand pump to be able to pull water from the well if the power is out.

These are the two most important and vital things that I can think of for a Bug In. Having the wood burner not only would allow us to heat the home, but also provide a way to cook food (we have an electric range). That would allow me to use the generator sparingly, to provide power to the freezer unit to keep perishables fresh, and greatly extend the stores of gasoline.

To preserve things like candles, oil lamps, flashlights, and lanterns (that are not renewable sources of light), we routinely use outdoor solar accent lights to provide light for the home at night. Put them out during the day to charge, bring them in at night. This works wondrously.

The common sense things like having a full pantry, a small garden, clothes line, a wash board and bucket, and of course firearms and ammunition to hunt and defend the home hardly need mentioned, and go without saying.

To me, a Bug In is the most preferred and most likely scenario for my household for several factors. We are quite rural, so the chances of roving gangs looting and pillaging coming are way are extremely remote, so there is a very low chance that we would have to pull out. The other reason is the size and age range of our family. We have 5 children, 3 of which are still very young (under 10 yrs old). Between the wife, myself, and our two oldest (16 and 11), it would be much easier to protect and provide for the rest at the homestead as opposed to in the wilderness. Things would have to get to the point of full on armed invasion by hostile, external forces (or a zombie apocalypse) to warrant trying to Bug Out with a family such as this (given our location).

I absolutely shudder at the idea of a Bug Out with my family. As unlikely as the scenario is, it is still something that I contemplate, and have been working the logistics of such out in my mind. Right now it is a theoretical exercise, but not one that I have actually started preparing for. First thing is first, and I have to take care of the more likely scenario before I start putting time, energy, and resources into a Bug Out plan. Have to get that wood burner and hand pump.

Any which way we look at it, the decision to Bug In or Bug Out is going to be highly personalized based from every individual's personal circumstances. In reality, there will never be a single right answer as to what a person should do, and how they should prepare. However, if there are enough of us that discuss our personal situations, it should provide an outline for others who may find themselves in similar circumstances.
 
Old March 16th, 2013 #2
keifer
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Human waste: In city limits where crapping in the woods is not an option, disposal of waste is an upmost concern. Filling a plastic bag and burying it in a suburbia back yard is only the half of it, you must consider what the neighbors are doing as well.
 
Old March 16th, 2013 #3
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Survivalist: Biggest goddamn knife possible with custom camo.
Realist: Camo?...why would I potentially hide from myself the most important tool in my kit. What ever a big knife can do, a small axe can do better.
 
Old March 16th, 2013 #4
Mr A.Anderson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keifer View Post
Human waste: In city limits where crapping in the woods is not an option, disposal of waste is an upmost concern. Filling a plastic bag and burying it in a suburbia back yard is only the half of it, you must consider what the neighbors are doing as well.
This is a really interesting point. While it is not a concern here as we have a septic, those that are tied into a city or suburban sewer system, what happens when the system is literally flooded or overwhelmed because the stations and sub stations are no longer working or being manned?

Slit trenches and actual outhouses can be dug very easily, but the lesser of our citizenry will be pissing and shitting in the streets. And as you said, when it comes to body waste, your neighbor's nasty, lazy habits can spread disease to you and yours even if you are careful and responsible.

One of the reasons I'm glad I don't have neighbors.
 
Old March 16th, 2013 #5
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Here is a concern that causes me to lose sleep.
When bugging in becomes bugging out, after which I have over time accumulated enough supplies to sustain ourselves for bugging in and now we have to leave it behind,...only for those who have displaced us to now take possession of a profitable score on supplies. To know that I have forfeited vital supplies to the very threat that is now taking over my living environment. The sad fact is that you must leave things behind. I have spent many hours in a dark corner sobbing over the potential fact that I would have to leave the Winchester behind.
At what point do you torch the house?
 
Old March 16th, 2013 #6
Mr A.Anderson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keifer View Post
Here is a concern that causes me to lose sleep.
When bugging in becomes bugging out, after which I have over time accumulated enough supplies to sustain ourselves for bugging in and now we have to leave it behind,...only for those who have displaced us to now take possession of a profitable score on supplies. To know that I have forfeited vital supplies to the very threat that is now taking over my living environment. The sad fact is that you must leave things behind. I have spent many hours in a dark corner sobbing over the potential fact that I would have to leave the Winchester behind.
At what point do you torch the house?
Tough one. In my situation, if things ever got bad enough to cause us to flee, all is lost anyways. I would happily torch the fucker as we walked away. The one advantage of having a large family....we can bring large amounts of stuff (relative to each person's size.)

Realistically, with a family this size, providing shelter, food, and water will be the only concern. That mean permenant shelter, and the tools to build such (and make more tools needed), guns and ammo, and water purification/carry capabilities. Bugging out with a family is extremely diffwrent than bugging out by yourself.

Last edited by Mr A.Anderson; March 17th, 2013 at 06:14 AM.
 
Old March 16th, 2013 #7
Simmon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keifer View Post
Here is a concern that causes me to lose sleep.
When bugging in becomes bugging out, after which I have over time accumulated enough supplies to sustain ourselves for bugging in and now we have to leave it behind,...only for those who have displaced us to now take possession of a profitable score on supplies. To know that I have forfeited vital supplies to the very threat that is now taking over my living environment. The sad fact is that you must leave things behind. I have spent many hours in a dark corner sobbing over the potential fact that I would have to leave the Winchester behind.
At what point do you torch the house?
Tape it up in many layers of plastic and bury it. Later if you need to come back and get it, it will still be there as long as you keep the secret of where it's at.
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Old March 17th, 2013 #8
keifer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmon View Post
Tape it up in many layers of plastic and bury it. Later if you need to come back and get it, it will still be there as long as you keep the secret of where it's at.
I have considered this, and to add to what you are saying, bury the stash at the farthest point on property from the house. This would be a perceivable precaution to the situation of returning only to find your house occupied.
Maybe in a given scenario you would be doing yourself a favor by giving your self every opportunity to retrieve the stash even though your house is occupied.
 
Old March 18th, 2013 #9
Mr A.Anderson
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This summer, the oldest boy and I will be taking a trip up to the National Forrest near us. We are going to ruck in, ruck out, just with what we have for our packs. We are both very excited about it. It isn't a camping trip.

We have been, and still are, pouring over the videos held here, and all over the internet on bushcraft.

And this is what got me thinking about a Bug Out with the family.

I don't know how feasible and easy it would be to provide for a family this large with only the barest minimum of equipment, such as a bushcraft pack weighing 28 pounds. Permanent shelter would be a very high priority, which would require tools that are not normally brought in a light survival pack. Hunting game and fishing would be a must on a much larger scale. That is a lot of mouths to feed by trapping alone. I figure the oldest boy and myself could handle 80 pound packs (my gear and ruck would weigh that much while in the Army). The wife's pack would be lighter by about half, and then outfit the smaller ones with a few pounds each. The idea is to have different loads, with different items in each load. The oldest and I would have complete packs, but everyone else would have a blanket and canteen as common items (for each individual) and then tailor the individual load with miscellaneous items that will be needed to re-establish a permanent shelter.

Like I said, I really don't like the idea of a Bug Out with the family.

As to the trip this summer, we plan on going in for a week. I've already done a map recon of the area. I figure the place we are going is about 5 miles in from where we will be parking, but there is some heavy terrain in some spots, so it should be interesting.

 
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