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Old November 24th, 2011 #1
Brooklyn Rick
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Default .308 Ruger scout rifle

I was looking for a light weight rifle with some balls at short range. Have any of you Folks heard of this rifle?
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Old November 24th, 2011 #2
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$1,000 for a bolt action Ruger? No thanks!

DPMS makes a Panther LR-308 semi-auto AR10 in .308 with a stainless barrel for $1,100 and it's very accurate. It's heavy though. Not something you're going to want to carry around the woods for any length of time.


I picked up a Savage tactical rifle in .308 with a tactical stock and nice Springfield Armory milspec scope for roughly $650 that I use for deer hunting. General Lee can attest to its accuracy.

You'd be ill advised to spend $1,000 on a bolt action .308 of the type you described above when you could build a precision .308 tactical rifle and stock with scope for that or less and have a better firearm to boot. Better than Ruger anyway.

Ruger SP101? Yes. Ruger rifle? No.
 
Old November 24th, 2011 #3
keifer
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Savage makes a .308 bolt for about 325.00
 
Old November 24th, 2011 #4
Brooklyn Rick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OTPTT View Post
$1,000 for a bolt action Ruger? No thanks!

DPMS makes a Panther LR-308 semi-auto AR10 in .308 with a stainless barrel for $1,100 and it's very accurate. It's heavy though. Not something you're going to want to carry around the woods for any length of time.


I picked up a Savage tactical rifle in .308 with a tactical stock and nice Springfield Armory milspec scope for roughly $650 that I use for deer hunting. General Lee can attest to its accuracy.

You'd be ill advised to spend $1,000 on a bolt action .308 of the type you described above when you could build a precision .308 tactical rifle and stock with scope for that or less and have a better firearm to boot. Better than Ruger anyway.

Ruger SP101? Yes. Ruger rifle? No.
I have a G3 semi set up very much like the Panther in the picture, but i'm looking for something lighter. I also have my eye on the Savage scout but it lacks the firepower of the Ruger.
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Old November 24th, 2011 #5
Brooklyn Rick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keifer View Post
Savage makes a .308 bolt for about 325.00
I've seen that one too, and it got a good review but I like to hand load and Rugers are built pretty tough.
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Old November 24th, 2011 #6
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One of the dumbest moves I ever made was trading in my Rem700 30.06, but it was a brush gun and at the time I was hell bent on 1000yd target. When I was looking at that Savage just yesterday, the bolt just didn't seem as smooth as I remembered the Rem700 to be. So I asked the clerk if I could take a look at the new Rem700 and it too just did not seem as clean in action. Both were noisy, a little sloppy. My wife has Mossberg 410 from the 1950's and it is smooth beautiful metal, like I remember the old Rem700. Has the industry standards changed, or is it something I am overlooking? I am waiting to see what tags I draw this spring before I purchase anything, unless I come across a sweet deal between now and then.
 
Old January 9th, 2012 #8
Karl LaForce
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Default Get a semi-auto

Yes, I like bolt guns. My favorite hunting rifle is a Mauser 98 in 8mm, made in 48. But deer and paper targets do not shoot back. Get a semi-auto.

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Old January 9th, 2012 #9
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What is meant by short range?

With regards to power, what would be needed would depend on what you want the round to do, what the target is and the terrain. The round and its impact is far more important than what gets it there, and at close range, you don't need a rifle to get it there. Outside of the movies, rifles are only useful for long distance, there is no advantage up close over a handgun, and several very real disadvantages.

If penetration is not an issue e.g. accuracy training or paper type targets, since you seem to want accuracy, any .22 rifle in the Beretta range may be even better, as light as it gets, cheap to shoot, extremely accurate, reliable. You mention you need power at short range though, so presumably not accuracy or paper targets.

What environment e.g. is the round travelling through clear space or possibly travelling on through leaves, twigs to the target. Light rifles have light rounds, easily deflected.

Rifles outside a shooting range are not suitable for built up environments, as the rounds can and do travel through some targets, and on through some walls depending on construction and keep going, hitting targets you may not have intended.

Shot guns and slugs are then better for close up no matter what environment or target, as they have the most powerful effect, but don't travel too far.

If for self defence at home : meet your visitors - though an extreme example from the heart of darkness, coming soon to a suburb near you



1) In self defence, you need immediate, less than 1 second results, as a person can cover say 5 metres in far less than 1 second. To find out the most effective rounds, ignore gunshops, talk to EMTs and trauma doctors or nurses.
You'd need a head shot with a .45 or more, unlikely as you can expect at best one body shot, most likely not to a vital area. There are numerous cases on record of people getting shot at close range several times with a .38 in the head and still keeping on going.

For body shots, apart from a shotgun slug or something approaching a .50, no single round is powerful enough in itself to physically turn someone, none to slam someone to a halt. A .50 in a built up environment will keep going through and far beyond a nearby target.

The slug and .50 turns people at best because of size, not speed. 5 to 10 rounds into the attacker, unlikely in the extreme, would be needed in order to physically put him down. Quick enough stopping power does not entail hitting organs or meat, you can only hit a target hard enough to physically stop them if you hit bone and then only if its something like the sternum or breaking his leg bones i.e in reality in a house say there is almost no chance of stopping them before they are on you, and a rifle is then too large to use.

Most attackers that stop, fall etc when shot by a single round do so when sober and for psychological reasons, there is no physical reason to fall down, especially if just hit in a meaty area, and a junkie won't be affected psychologically to stop, it will most likely enrage him even further. People fall from losing balance e.g, running towards something, then suddenly looking/turning away to see where they have been shot i.e they lose balance and trip/fall from turning away, shock and panic, not the impact of the round. Often the hard fall onto hard, edged objects or surfaces e.g. concrete does more damage than the round.

A shot gun slug rips open a huge chunk, and that chunk will turn him, but still not necessarily stop him. Most people who get shot get shot within 5 metres, and in houses, within 1 to 3 metres. You would have to have a rifle that reloads itself immediately.

Rifles and shotguns are too bulky to use quickly indoors, but if someone is still outside working on your door or at the window, their hearing the sweet sound of a shotgun racking at 2 am will chase them away, and you won't need to shoot.


2) Attackers human or animal can keep going for up to 5 seconds, occasionally a short while longer, after their hearts are completely shot out, and most people survive single gunshot wounds as they almost never hit vital areas.

If you look at car or industrial accidents, even serious falls e.g. down stairs, you can see people walking around with massive blood loss and major injuries far exceeding what an entire magazine would do, let alone a single round, often they keep going for several minutes till blood loss, shock etc kick in.

3) A round needs to penetrate 2 to 3 inches to even reach a vital area, assuming you actually hit a vital area, and at very best only head, heart are potentially vital in terms of self defence. People who die from gunshot wounds usually die several minutes, often an hour or longer afterwards, from shock, blood loss, heart attacks and system shutdown.

4) Testing rounds in waterfilled bottles etc is absurd. They have no meaning whatsoever. If you want to see if what you are using has meaning, on a range with suitable backstop, put up first material from a heavy coat, then behind it a shirt, then a minimum half inch pine board to simulate very light bone, then a piece of pork with skin still on, the pork at least six inches thick, as pork with skin best simulates the human body.

In order to even reach a vital organ, that shot needs to penetrate all the other material, and then travel an absolute minimum of 2 to 3 inches into the meat.
Anyways, arrange it so that its e.g. set up along a table, so you can see for yourself that it will barely move the target at all, and see for yourself what penetrative power and size of wound it has.
Even that is not likely to give a true reflection of reality, as in real life you would probably be hitting a moving twisting target at an angle, so have even less impact.

To practice shooting for self defence, you need to go on combat type shooting ranges,and to simulate real life, shoot lying down, rolling around after extreme exertion, and from the most extreme and awkward angles. Rifles are useless for that.

Then hit that same target with a baseball bat and assess which does the most damage and has the most penetration and stopping power.
People have used clubs for millenia for good reason. Up close, rolling around, a club/bat/short stick or even stout walking stick are the best defence weapon of all, but one has the risk of it simply being grabbed and pulled away, so a short stick is best, to be used almost in a punching motion.

Even if facing a junkie, if enough of his bones are broken, he's going down. Your target will not be standing still, and may well be swinging a stick/pipe/bat machete at you as they advance.

Firearms simply aren't as effective as people think. Deer or prey animal hunting is also not a true measure, as they are by nature timid, running away, and shock easily. Nature designed them to be killable. Human attackers are enraged, screaming, will most certainly have some type of object in their hand/s and are not at all timid. Even dogs need to be shot several times, and still manage to bite.

In an attack serious enough to require a firearm, you are likely to be in a car so rifles are useless, and in a car, you should carry for crossdraw. Most likely you'll have just woken up, heart beating out your chest, mind in cotton wool, tunnel vision, can hardly breathe, caught up in blankets, he is probably close to or already on top of you, and there are usally several of them, all charging you at once. They may have firearms too, or be throwing things at you as they charge.
There is no aiming per se, its just instantaneous point and shoot, which requires practice.

It is 99 per cent certain, that if he charges you, even if you shoot him, you are both going to go to the ground, and unless you are a vicious s.o.b. he will most probably wrench it out of your hand, and shoot you or hit you with it.

Few know just how tough and strong humans are when enraged. Enraged or drugged, he will have 3 or more times your strength, as three or more grown men are the minimum needed to hold down an enraged drunk, junkie or nutcase, and even then, he is kicking, twisting, biting, scratching so intensely, those holding him down still often lose control and many get killed or seriously injured.

You always need a stick or baseball bat as back up.
Break his bones to stop him, nothing else works.
Whatever you decide, be expert with it under the absolute worst conditions and positions.

Bats, followed by handguns then shotguns are best overall for close up, and beretta are best so you can learn to hit the target under all conditions, and as for shot gun accuracy:



Other than that, look to experts at close quarter combat involving rifles, shotguns etc


3:20 on




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Last edited by Hugh; January 9th, 2012 at 03:32 PM.
 
Old January 11th, 2012 #10
John Cassidy
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Default bolts are serious weapons

I am a fan of magazine fed auto rifles for defensive purposes. However, in larger calibers, high powered bolt rifles are faster at putting the first shot on target because they are lighter tools than larger caliber autoloading rifles.

In the right hands a high powered bolt is quite a weapon. The 7mm magnum featured in the vid shoots a bullet that is, typically, a little smaller and faster than a .308, but the demonstrated performance of the featured bolt rifle is similar enough to the Ruger Scout to reccomend the Scout as a serious fighting weapon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=byChkCfZqbE#
 
Old January 18th, 2012 #11
Ty Grant
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Default Big Money covert op's For sale

http://www.americascovertwarriors.com/

C3 is military shorthand for Command, Control and Communications, all necessary tools for victory in combat. C3 in Baghdad stood for Chaos, Corruption, and Carnage for 5 long years.

Murder, rigged bids, stunning heroism, and gross incompetence stood shoulder to shoulder in a Wild West Atmosphere awash in …………individual $100 dollar bills.

An Ak-47 could be had for five bucks and a bottle of whiskey landed you an anti tank rocket.

It was a world where some contractors made more bootlegging liquor and running guns than they did fighting on behalf of the US taxpayer.

Anything and everything was for sale, life was cheap, thieves prospered and heroes died. That was Iraq shortly after the war, where anything could, and did, happen.

This is the story the media never told you about, because Private Military Contractors refused to speak to the media. But they opened their souls to me, for I was one of them.

The book above is from a normal American GOON who probably in his own right is a true white man and through all the near death experiences still maintains sanity. These are the brainwashed individuals that are our worst nightmare... combined with the tactical training and insider information and clearance for weaponry the Kwan dream is what they bleed for,,,.. knowing nothing better...


In Breif..
I am a fan of the WN movement and wish all a peaceful day... I am adding a reply to this thread because I have some military experience. and have worked closely with the CIA and Blackwater Killing Swquads of Iraq. Not in any real practical sense other than having been in training sessions with EX CIA operatives and visually seeing first hand BlackWater in action.. Nothing better describes a perfect cross section of uninformed buffoons than these organizations and men.. It is sad that as I write this there are backdoor witness who watch every move of what i feel is a non violent approach to gaining our civil institutions back from the jews. I suffer as many here do greatly with the targeted attacks of Joos who want noting more than to kill Whitey ...
 
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