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Old August 24th, 2005 #1
John Yaeger
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Default Walter West

I was just thinking about this guy and was wondering whether a lot of posters here think that what happened to him was right. Personally I think it sucks and is a good reason for all the Order members involved to be shut away forever.
I'd rather watch a Diddy video than pay homage to white people that practiced the human sacrifice of a conscious white because he was an alcoholic.

To (perhaps vainly) try to shut off some of the kneejerk responses, I repeat "members involved".

But I have only read some of the mainstream information about the murder. Does anybody know of any information that would justify his killing?

Why are the Order members involved in his slaying the subjects of threads and websites saying that they are unjustly imprisoned? If killing an innocent white isn't sufficient grounds for punishment, what is?

Are there people here who would do the same thing under the same circumstances?

Actually, I haven't seen all that much uncritical Order worship on this board, and I'm not trying to be a bitch because the posters here haven't supplied reason to be one. I would post this on Stormfront, where there are a hell of a lot of people who DO deserve to be pressed on this issue, but it's not like the mods would let it through.
 
Old August 24th, 2005 #2
8Man
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Where do you get the idea Walter West was killed because he was an alcoholic? All the Google results I've seen seem to indicate a different motive:

Order member Walter West was murdered when Bob Matthews began to suspect him of talking about the group to outsiders.

Walter West, a member of Aryan Nations who was being recruited by the Bruder Schweigen, fell to disfavor largely because members believed he talked too much. In May of 1984, he was driven into the Idaho wilderness by Order members who then executed and buried him.

The victim was Walter West, an Aryan Nations member. Because he liked to shoot off his mouth in bars, he was considered a security risk, and Matthews ordered his followers to kill him.
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Old August 24th, 2005 #3
John Yaeger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8Man
Where do you get the idea Walter West was killed because he was an alcoholic? All the Google results I've seen seem to indicate a different motive:

Order member Walter West was murdered when Bob Matthews began to suspect him of talking about the group to outsiders.

Walter West, a member of Aryan Nations who was being recruited by the Bruder Schweigen, fell to disfavor largely because members believed he talked too much. In May of 1984, he was driven into the Idaho wilderness by Order members who then executed and buried him.

The victim was Walter West, an Aryan Nations member. Because he liked to shoot off his mouth in bars, he was considered a security risk, and Matthews ordered his followers to kill him.

Mainly that was what I remember from reading Martinez' book a few years ago. I'll try to find it again and get the relevant info.
Also the "shooting his mouth of at bars" type of thing might have given me that impression. I'll try to find some accounts supporting that assertion tomorrow, and if I can't, I will apologize for having let my mind spin it into a false one.
Of course, even if the reason for the order of his death was that he was a security risk for being a dumb braggart rather than from being an alcoholic, I think it's still pretty messed up. I mean even in the worst case scenario--and I don't know anything proving that it WAS a worst case scenario--there just isn't a reason to sneak up and kill someone that you're pretending to be a brother to. That's gangsta fantasy shit!
 
Old August 24th, 2005 #4
John Yaeger
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Default Weird

At

http://www.churchoftrueisrael.com/the-order/yarb.html

Gary Yarbrough says that not only was West not an Order member, but that he was never even considered for induction.

If this is true how could West have known anything to run his mouth about? This doesn't make sense...if they were the ones bragging about their deeds, which as far as I can see is the only way West could know about them, they should've killed themselves for being certainly known security risks, instead of him for being a suspected one. Or if it wasn't all of them bragging, they could've at least "just" beat the hell out of West until they found out which ones were. Him not being a member makes his murder even more sorry and pointless.

BTW 8Man, besides a couple of descriptions of West as a "chronic drunk", I'm not really finding anything to back my original assertion that alcoholism was the primary motivation for the murder. So I need to go ahead and apologize for that.
 
Old August 24th, 2005 #5
Antiochus Epiphanes
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People are free to criticize the Order here. The incarcerated Order members have repeatedly tried to sabotage this message board, because this message board allowed Glenn Miller to tell his side of the story.

The Order members appeared to have good intentions for our race, but they failed. In their failure they dragged many down. They continue to drag us down by encouraging a cult revolving around themselves. They are not leaders of the "above ground" movement and they never were. Their ongoing and repeated contacts with the "above ground movement" were mistakes that harmed the lawful movement and themselves. These contacts served only vanity and not their declared objectives.

Who does not admire the resolve and courage of Robert Matthews? I do. But he made mistakes. And his followers continue to make mistakes and sabotaging this forum was one of them. I don't want to discuss those mistakes but again, others are free to do so.
 
Old August 24th, 2005 #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Yaeger
Mainly that was what I remember from reading Martinez' book a few years ago. I'll try to find it again and get the relevant info.
Also the "shooting his mouth of at bars" type of thing might have given me that impression. I'll try to find some accounts supporting that assertion tomorrow, and if I can't, I will apologize for having let my mind spin it into a false one.
Of course, even if the reason for the order of his death was that he was a security risk for being a dumb braggart rather than from being an alcoholic, I think it's still pretty messed up. I mean even in the worst case scenario--and I don't know anything proving that it WAS a worst case scenario--there just isn't a reason to sneak up and kill someone that you're pretending to be a brother to. That's gangsta fantasy shit!
The Order was made up mostly of radical young men inexperienced in security precautions. Mathews was 31 when he was murdered by the feds in Dec 84, for example and had no military or law enforcement background. Though in my opinion, he was highly intelligent and a great leader of men.

They all talked to each other about everything everybody else was doing, rather than confine information to only those with a Need-To-Know. And like their young Viking warrior ancestors, they enjoyed bragging of their exploits to friends, girl friends, family members, and other WNs they came into contact with. And having personally met about a dozen of them, and having read 3 books on The Order, I'd say Mathews was the biggest braggart of all. (I don't say that out of disrespect, but rather as a point of fact. He was a healthy, young, hard-charging Aryan warrior, and that's what they do).

Consequent to their non-compliance with basic security precautions from the beginning, many WNs other than Order members, knew what they were doing, including Walter West. West drank alot and was heard shooting off his mouth in public. So, several Order members did what they thought they had to do at the time. One of the "Order books" said one of the Order members moved in with West's wife right after his death, but we cannot know for sure if that had anything to do with the decision to "off" him.

I cannot say I would not have done the same under the circumstances of West's big mouth, however.

The Order are my heros. Always have been, and always will be. And regardless of their mistakes and errors in judgment. And regardless of the fact that 13 of them ratted to the feds every detail of my illegal associations with them.

God, what brave Aryan men they were during the 18 months they waged war against our enemies. Why have they not been immulated ??
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Old August 24th, 2005 #7
John Yaeger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rounder
The Order was made up mostly of radical young men inexperienced in security precautions. Mathews was 31 when he was murdered by the feds in Dec 84, for example and had no military or law enforcement background. Though in my opinion, he was highly intelligent and a great leader of men.

They all talked to each other about everything everybody else was doing, rather than confine information to only those with a Need-To-Know. And like their young Viking warrior ancestors, they enjoyed bragging of their exploits to friends, girl friends, family members, and other WNs they came into contact with. And having personally met about a dozen of them, and having read 3 books on The Order, I'd say Mathews was the biggest braggart of all. (I don't say that out of disrespect, but rather as a point of fact. He was a healthy, young, hard-charging Aryan warrior, and that's what they do).

Consequent to their non-compliance with basic security precautions from the beginning, many WNs other than Order members, knew what they were doing, including Walter West. West drank alot and was heard shooting off his mouth in public. So, several Order members did what they thought they had to do at the time. One of the "Order books" said one of the Order members moved in with West's wife right after his death, but we cannot know for sure if that had anything to do with the decision to "off" him.

I cannot say I would not have done the same under the circumstances of West's big mouth, however.

The Order are my heros. Always have been, and always will be. And regardless of their mistakes and errors in judgment. And regardless of the fact that 13 of them ratted to the feds every detail of my illegal associations with them.

God, what brave Aryan men they were during the 18 months they waged war against our enemies. Why have they not been immulated ??
Thanks for your reply (and you also, A.E.). I think I should have done some more research on this subject before I brought it up rather than relying on my faulty memory as I did last night.

Can anyone (Rounder, in particular, but anyone's suggestion is welcome) recommend a book, article, etc, that deals with the West case, hopefully primarily, but at least in depth? I think I should refrain from comment until I've found better sources.
 
Old August 24th, 2005 #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Yaeger
Thanks for your reply (and you also, A.E.). I think I should have done some more research on this subject before I brought it up rather than relying on my faulty memory as I did last night.

Can anyone (Rounder, in particular, but anyone's suggestion is welcome) recommend a book, article, etc, that deals with the West case, hopefully primarily, but at least in depth? I think I should refrain from comment until I've found better sources.
"The Silent Brotherhood", by Kevin Flynn and Gary Gerhardt, covers Walter West fairly extensively. Though I believe "Talked to Death" by Stephen Singular is the least biased of the 3 books on The Order. The 3d is "Brotherhood of Hate" by Thomas Martinez and John Guinther.

You can obtain these books cheaply at used book stores.
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