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Old August 12th, 2015 #1
Ramsay Bolton
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Tel Aviv
Posts: 633
Default Feminism Responsible For The Fall Of Rome?

Based on past history, it appears that a civilization that embraces feminist values will cease to exist in just a few centuries. This is why we have never seen a feminist civilization aside from very short spans at the end of the Roman empire and possibly a few other more ancient civilizations.

Reading the history of the roman Empire brings such glaring similarities with our own civilization, it is as if human social dynamics are literally stuck in a cycle that repeats every couple thousand years (there were two matriarchical, extremely advanced civilizations: one at the end of the Roman empire, 2000 years ago, one possibly at the end of Babylon, 4000 years ago).

For those who enjoy history, here is a short recap of social changes in Rome, 2 millenia ago (most historians focus on military and political facts, but I find the social aspects just as fascinating):

~5 century BC: Roman civilization is a a strong patriarchy, fathers are liable for the actions of their wife and children, and have absolute authority over the family (including the power of life and death)

~1 century BC: Roman civilization blossoms into the most powerful and advanced civilization in the world. Material wealth is astounding, citizens (i.e.: non slaves) do not need to work. They have running water, baths and import spices from thousands of miles away. The Romans enjoy the arts and philosophy; they know and appreciate democracy, commerce, science, human rights, animal rights, children rights and women become emancipated. No-fault divorce is enacted, and quickly becomes popular by the end of the century.

~1-2 century AD: The family unit is destroyed. Men refuse to marry and the government tries to revive marriage with a "bachelor tax", to no avail. Children are growing up without fathers, Roman women show little interest in raising their own children and frequently use nannies. The wealth and power of women grows very fast, while men become increasingly demotivated and engage in prostitution and vice. Prostitution and homosexuality become widespread.

~3-4 century AD: A moral and demographic collapse takes place, Roman population declines due to below-replacement birth-rate. Vice and massive corruption are rampant, while the new-born Catholic Religion is gaining power (it becomes the religion of the Empire in 380 AD). There is extreme economic, political and military instability: there are 25 successive emperors in half a century (many end up assassinated), the Empire is ungovernable and on the brink of civil war.

~5 century AD: The Empire is ruled by an elite of military men that use the Emperor as a puppet; due to massive debts and financial problems, the Empire cannot afford to hire foreign mercenaries to defend itself (Roman citizens have long ago being replaced by mercenaries in the army), and starts "selling" parts of the Empire in exchange for protection. Eventually, the mercenaries figure out that the "Emperor has no clothes", and overrun and pillage the Empire.

humanity falls back into the Bronze Age (think: eating squirrel meat and living in a cave); 12 centuries of religious zilotry (The Great Inquisition, Crusades) and intellectual darkness follow: science, commerce, philosophy, human rights become unknown concepts until they are rediscovered again during the Age of Enlightenment in 17th century AD.

Regarding the Babylonian civilization (~2,000 BC), we have relatively few records, but we do know that they had a very advanced civilization because we found their legislative code written down on stone tablets (yes, they had laws and tribunals, and some of today's commercial code can even be traced back to Babylonian law).

They had child support laws (which seems to indicate that there was a family breakdown), and they collapsed presumably due to a "moral breakdown"
Old August 14th, 2015 #2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,110

I think Rome fell for a lot of different reasons. I doubt feminism is a root cause, as something had to cause the conditions for the rise of feminism in the first place. Feminism was promoted in our country by jews, and there were jews in Rome that were seen as a problem. I would say slavery was also a huge factor in the decline of Rome, even more so than feminism. I wonder if the jews had as big of a hand in Roman slavery as in ours?

I have long been intrigued by why great civilizations fall, and never read anything that approached a theory that applied to them all until 2 years ago. (Jared Diamond's "Collapse" was obviously ludicrous even when I read it as a naive 22 year old.)

I highly recommend: The Collapse of Complex Societies (New Studies in Archaeology) (9780521386739): Joseph A. Tainter: Books The Collapse of Complex Societies (New Studies in Archaeology) (9780521386739): Joseph A. Tainter: Books

I think there are free versions online if you look.


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