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Old October 18th, 2008 #1
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Default Jews Ritually Murder Non-jewish Children

The History of Jewish Human Sacrifice

Willie Martin

At the dawn of civilization, the blood rite, in which human blood is drunk from the body of a still-living victim, was known to many tribes. However, only one people, that has never progressed beyond the Stone Age, has continued to practice the blood rite and ritual murder. This people are know to the world as Jews. Arnold Toynbee, a noted scholar, has called the Jews "a fossil people."

In so doing, he must have been aware of the fact that they still practice ritual murder and the drinking of human blood (especially Christian blood). As a scholar, he could not have failed to note the many attested incidents of this practice of the Jews, for hundreds of example of ritual murder by the Jews are cited in official Catholic books, in every European literature, and in the court records of all the European nations.

It is the official historian of the Jews, (Josef Kastein, in his History of the Jews, who gives the underlying reason for this barbaric custom. On page 173, he says, "According to the primeval Jewish view, the blood was the seat of the soul."

Thus it was not the heart which was the seat of the soul, according to the stone-age Jews, but the blood itself. They believed that by drinking the blood of a Christian victim who was perfect in every way, they could overcome their physical short comings and become as powerful as the intelligent civilized beings among whom they had formed their parasitic communities. Because of this belief, the Jews are known to have practiced drinking blood since they made their first appearance in history.
For the rest

Leading Egyptian Newspaper raises Blood Libel
The Blood Libel - the claim that Jews use the blood of Christians to make the Matzah (unleavened bread) eaten at Passover - is an ancient accusation against the Jewish people. In modern times, this claim has surfaced in the context of the Arab-Israeli conflict. In 1984, long-time Syrian Defense Minster and Ba'athist leader, Field Marshal Mustafa Tlass, wrote a book entitled 'The Matzah of Zion' about the 1840 Damascus Blood Libel which he described as an historical event that was researched and verified by several European Universities. More recently, in November 1999, Al-Usbu' Al-Adabi, a weekly of the Syrian Arab Writers Association, published an article mentioning the 1840 Damascus Blood Libel. (1)
Why I Believe in Jewish Ritual Murder
Winston Smith, aka Harold Covington

Yes, I do believe that the Jews have practiced ritual murder as part of their religious ceremonies in the past, and that they almost certainly do so today, with the following qualifiers:

I do not believe this practice is or ever has been widespread, but has always been restricted to a small number of the most hard-core rabbis and Jewish cabalistic mystic sects;

I am perfectly willing to accept the likelihood that individual Jews down through history have been falsely accused of this practice, just as I believe that on the other hand it has often been carried out undetected and/or unpunished. The Beiliss case in 1913 Russia is a good case in point: Mendel Beiliss himself was probably innocent of the actual commission of murder although he may have been peripherally involved in covering up the act on the part of his co-religionists;
This here is awesome, the Catholic Church released these 2 articles
Two Articles from Civilta Cattolica on Jewish Ritual Murder

Pope Pius IX ordered the Jesuits to publish the journal Civilta Cattolica (Catholic Civilisation) in Rome as the informal organ of the Vatican. The papal secretariat of state cleared every article before publication. It is still published. We present here two articles from the journal which concern Jewish Ritual Murder: one from the June 23 1881 edition and one from the November 10 1881 edition.


La Civilta Cattolica

Contemporaneous Reports

Florence, the 23rd of June, 1881

Rome (Our Correspondence). On jews’ murderous reaction, that is on evil jewish action referred to crimes and murders against things and lives of non-jews, especially if Christians; on talmudical command and spirit of jewish piety and devotion.
jew admits to sacrificing baby on oprah winfrey show

Jewish Ritual Murder video featuring Arnold Leese's book of same name.

Jewish Ritual Murder Revisited part 1

Part 2-

Part 3-
Old October 19th, 2008 #2
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Thank you for excellent information on the subject, comrade.
Old October 19th, 2008 #3
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Location: Mazonnawar Citadel
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"Soul had they none, nor lineage;
"Nor wit, nor headmen,
"Nor crafts, nor letters,
"Nor e'en a glimpse of God."
- British Edda.

"Ye are of your father the devil and the lusts of your father ye will do.
He was a murderer from the beginning...."
- St. John, viii, 44.

"In order to destroy the prestige of heroism for political crime, we shall send it for trial in the category of thieving, murder, and every abominable and filthy crime. Public opinion will then confuse in its conception this category of crime with the disgrace attaching to every other and will brand it with the same contempt."
Protocol 19 of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

"If I am killing a rat with a stick and have him in a corner, I am not indignant if he tries to bite me and squeals and gibbers with rage. My job is, not to get angry, but to keep cool, to attend to my footwork and to keep on hitting him where it will do the most good."

- A. S. Leese, speaking at Reception, 17th Feb., 1937, on his return from prison.

Find the book online here
J e w i s h R i t u a l - M u r d e r
a H i s t o r i c a l I n v e s t i g a t i o n
by Hellmut Schramm, Ph.D.

a translation by R. Belser of
D e r j ü d i s c h e R i t u a l m o r d
E i n e h i s t o r i s c h e
U n t e r s u c h u n g
von Hellmut Schramm, Ph. D.

This translation is dedicated to Dr. Hellmut Schramm, whose fate remains unknown, and to Julius Streicher and all the other investigators who have paid with their lives for publicizing information about this subject. -- R.B.

Online book here
The Bloody Passovers of Dr Toaff

By Israel Shamir

Blood, betrayal, torture, and surrender are intervowen in the story of an Italian Jew, Dr Ariel Toaff, as if penned by his compatriot Umberto Eco. Dr Toaff stumbled onto a frightful discovery, was horrified but bravely went on, until he was subjected to the full pressure of his community; he repented, a broken man.

Dr Toaff is the son of the Rabbi of Rome and a professor in the Jewish University of Bar Ilan, not far from Tel Aviv. He made a name for himself by his deep study of medieval Jewry. His three-volumed Love, Work, and Death (subtitled Jewish Life in Medieval Umbria) is an encyclopaedia of this admittedly narrow area. While studying his subject he discovered that the medieval Ashkenazi Jewish communities of North Italy practiced a particularly horrible form of human sacrifice. Their wizards and adepts stole and crucified Christian babies, obtained their blood and used it for magical rituals evoking the Spirit of Vengeance against the hated Goyim.
Bloody Passover by Ariel Toaf
This book courageously faces one of the most controversial topics in the history of the Jews of Europe, one which has always served as a war-horse of anti-Semitism: the accusation, leveled against the Jews for centuries, of abducting and killing Christian children to use their blood in Jewish Passover rites. Where Italy is concerned, nearly all the ritual murder trials were held in the north-eastern regions, characterized by large settlements of German-origin Jews (Ashkenazim). The most famous case of this kind occurred in Trent, Italy, in 1475, as a result of which many local Jews were indicted and sentenced to death for the murder of the boy who was to become known as “Simon of Trent”, and was venerated as a Saint for several centuries, until only a few decades ago. An unprejudiced rereading of the original trial records, however, together with the records of several other trials, viewed within the overall European context and supplemented by an exact knowledge of the relevant Hebrew texts, throws new light on the ritual and therapeutic significance of blood in Jewish culture, leading the author of the present study to the reluctant conclusion that, particularly where Ashkenazi Jewry was concerned, the "Blood Libel" accusation was not always an invention
Old December 16th, 2008 #4
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Great info on filthy jews!!! Truly they are the devil's own seed!!
Old January 3rd, 2009 #5
Mike Mazzone of Palatine
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Originally Posted by Gman View Post
Great info on filthy jews!!! Truly they are the devil's own seed!!
Bump worthy thread. Rep Adi18.
Old June 4th, 2011 #6
Karl Radl
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Karl Radl
Default Erich Bischoff contra Hermann Strack: A Forgotten Chapter in anti-Semitic History

Erich Bischoff contra Hermann Strack: A Forgotten Chapter in anti-Semitic History

Like most students of the jewish question I am well aware of Professor Hermann Strack; Protestant theologian and specialist in Hebraica, who wrote the classic defence of jewry against the charge of ritual murder or the ‘blood libel’. (1) This eloquent and learned defence has often been; and continues to be, quoted and cited in jewry’s defence on this score. (2)

What I was unaware of however; and I haven’t seen any reference to this in literature so I can only presume it has been either left out or has been forgotten over time, was that Dr. Erich Bischoff; the anti-Semitic academic expert on theology and jewry, who argued that jews could read some of their own works; most notably certain passages in the Zohar, as injunctions on behalf of collecting gentile blood for ritual purposes, was in fact a disciple and student of Strack’s. (3)

We can see this in one of Bischoff’s first published works that I have been able to locate; ‘Jesus and the Rabbis’, (4) which takes a detailed look at jewish traditions concerning Jesus. (5) In it Bischoff is not injudicious towards the jews, but takes; much as Strack himself did, strong offense about the various claims made about Jesus by the jews and points out that such traditions can be overcome, but not easily. Bischoff however tells us that his relationship with Strack was that of disciple with his master (6) and it is further confirmed by Strack’s contribution of an afterword to the work. (7) It also happens to have been published as part of a series of monographs by Strack’s own Institutum Judaicum in Berlin!

It seems that between 1906 and 1922; the year of Strack’s death, that Bischoff further developed his thought regarding the jews and seemingly unencumbered by Strack’s need to convert jews to Protestant Christianity by being friendly with them. Bischoff went somewhat further and argued that the jews had rendered themselves; via serving their own interests, contrary to Germans and Germany. (8)

It is quite possible; even probable, that the pivotal event in Bischoff’s scholarly development towards an actively anti-Semitic position in regards to jews was the first world war. As this helped to fuel the fire of German nationalism and the flowering of anti-Semitic thought in the wake of the Protocols of Zion and the Bolshevik revolution was helped along by this increasingly strident nationalist sentiment among gentiles as well as the rapid spread of militant forms of Zionist and Marxist ideology among the jews. (9)

We can see the culmination of Bischoff’s anti-Semitic intellectual development regarding the issue of jewish ritual murder in the publication of his forgotten demolition and critique of his mentor Strack’s case for the defence: ‘Das Blut in jüdischem Schriftum und Brauch’. (10) This makes sense of Bischoff’s later appearance as the principal witness for the defence in the attempted libel suit against Julius Streicher and ‘Der Stürmer’ for arguing that jews have committed; and do commit, ritual murder for religious reasons. (11)

Bischoff’s standing as an highly-qualified expert and his then recent publication of a work that argues just what Streicher had done tells us why the German court dismissed the case against Streicher without resorting to the standard intellectual cop-out of arguing that the judge/court was anti-Semitic or ‘biased’ in some way used by some authors to make up for a lack of research on their part. (12)

The reason that Bischoff seems to have been forgotten by anti-Semites seems to be, because his writings on the subject of jews were only ever available in German and because of a considerable gap in the literature on anti-Semitism of this period relating to Hermann Strack, Julius Streicher and Theodor Fritsch: Erich Bischoff has simply been largely forgotten. (13)

It is somewhat bemusing to note that Alan Steinweis in his recent defamation of anti-Semitic scholars of this particular period seems not to even have known of Bischoff’s existence even though he discusses work in which Bischoff’s work is cited on numerous occasions! (14) That said his work has fortunately been noticed by the odd specialist. (15)

I will be commenting extensively on Bischoff’s work in the future and quite possibly translating some of it into English. Bischoff was certainly one of the very best anti-Semitism has ever had to offer; along with Karl Georg Kuhn and Gerhard Kittel, on the subject of the inhumanity and insanity of Judaism.

He deserves to be remembered as one of the greatest minds that anti-Semitism has ever produced rather than being simply consigned to obscurity.


(1) Hermann Strack, Henry Blauchamp (Trans.), 1909, ‘The Jew and Human Sacrifice: An Historical and Sociological Inquiry’, 1st Edition, Bloch: New York
(2) For example in Jonathan Frankel, 1997, ‘The Damascus Affair: “Ritual Murder,” Politics, and the Jews in 1840’, 1st Edition, Cambridge University Press: New York, p. 468
(3) Arnold Leese, 1938, ‘My Irrelevant Defence’, 1st Edition, Imperial Fascist League: London, p. 5
(4) Erich Bischoff, 1905, ‘Jesus und die Rabbinen’, 1st Edition, Schriften des Institutum Judaicum: Berlin
(5) Peter Schäfer, 2007, ‘Jesus in the Talmud’, 1st Edition, Princeton University Press: Princeton echoes many of Bischoff’s judgements however implicitly and sometimes against his own explicit reasoning.
(6) Bischoff, ‘Jesus und die Rabbinen’, Op. Cit.
(7) Ibid, pp. 104-107
(8) I infer this from Bischoff’s association with Theodor Fritsch after the First World War as this was Fritsch, the Reichshammerbund and Hammer Verlag’s general position on the matter. I can see nothing in Bischoff’s corpus of work to suggest otherwise.
(9) See for example Albert Lindemann, 1997, ‘Esau’s Tears: Modern Anti-Semitism and the Rise of the Jews’, 1st Edition, Cambridge University Press: New York, pp. 100-101; Robert Lougee, 1962, ‘Paul de Lagarde 1827-1891: A Study of Radical Conservatism in Germany’, 1st Edition, Harvard University Press: Cambridge, pp. 245-252
(10) Erich Bischoff, 1929, ‘Das Blut in jüdischem Schriftum und Brauch’, 1st Edition, Hammer Verlag: Leipzig
(11) Leese, Op. Cit., p. 5
(12) Randall Bytwerk, 2001, ‘Julius Streicher: Nazi Editor of the Notorious Anti-Semitic Newspaper Der Stürmer’, 1st Edition, Cooper Square Press: New York, pp. 126-130
(13) E. Klauke, 2011, ‘Theodor Fritsch (1852-1933): The ‘Godfather’ of German Antisemitism’ in R. Haynes, M. Rady (Eds.), 2011, ‘In the Shadow of Hitler: Personalities of the Right in Central and Eastern Europe’, 1st Edtion, I. B. Tauris: London has realised much as I did a few years ago that Fritsch has barely even been studied (although he has been noticed and commented on in passing by specialists such as Peter Pulzer, Fritz Stern and Richard Levy) by scholars of anti-Semitism in spite of his central importance to giving it much of its intellectual basis and popularising it as well as his important role in helping the NSDAP achieve power and enhancing Goebbels’ anti-Semitism for example. Klauke has promised a biography of Fritsch, which should make interesting reading although it will be no easy task considering the amount of correspondence Fritsch had and also how much he himself wrote in his periodicals.
(14) Alan Steinweis, 2008, ‘Studying the Jew: Scholarly anti-Semitism in Nazi Germany’, 1st Edition, Princeton University Press: Princeton
(15) David Biale, 2007, ‘Blood and Belief: The Circulation of a Symbol between Jews and Christians’, 1st Edition, University of California Press: Los Angeles, pp. 132-135


This was originally published at the following address: http://semiticcontroversies.blogspot...nn-strack.html
Old July 12th, 2011 #7
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Default 2011 - And The Jews Are Still Engaging in The Ritual Murder of Children

Cossacks accuse Talmudic Jews of recent twin ritual murder of two young children in Ukraine

A Moscow paper Russkiy Vestnik reported in its issue dated March 4, 2011, twin ritual murder in Ukraine, with reference to an Ukrainian news agency New Region

"As previously reported by Russian and Ukrainian media, two girls, a 11-year-old Tatiana Mizinova and a 10-year-old Nastia Balyabinova, disappeared in the city of Sebastopol in Ukrainian Crimea on January 4, 2011. The whole city of Sebastopol was searching for the girls. Police patrols and traffic police were involved.

The children were searched by the police across the whole Crimea. Their photos were regularly shown on Crimean TV channels. Every day, dozens of participants of a Sevastopol forum gathered at noon at the shopping center Ocean, and with small groups, they "combed"
the territory and fixed posters with the photos and the description of the girls on walls and pillars.

Everything was in vain. On January 29, the bodies of the girls were found by a local woman, walking with a dog, at a site which had been already examined by groups of volunteers several times. That suggests that the bodies were thrown out at the site after the murder. According to the coroner, the girls had been murdered a week before their bodies were found.

According to an Ukrainian news agency New Region, the leader of the Crimean Cossack community "Sobol", Vitaly Khramov, said that the main version is a ritual murder of the Sevastopol schoolgirls. "The parents of one of the girls, - Mr. Kramov told the New Region - confirmed their previous statements that it had been a ritual murder. In an informal conversation with parents, an expert said that the traces of knife wounds show that the child was first slowly exsanguinated, and then assassinated with one or two knife blows.

God forbid if we are wrong, but new evidence suggests that the girl was killed according to Talmudic or Cabalistic rite"
. A father of the second girl is in a state of shock, and talks with nobody. The ritual nature of both murders is confirmed, first, by the fact that one girl was slain with knives, and the other was cleaved in four parts. And the first knife wounds were minor, which is typical for the Talmudic or Cabalistic rite, when the right method is to exsanguinate the victim".

According to the testimony of Mr. Khramov, the ritual nature could have been committed in a normal "social" apartment:

"Today, with modern sound-proofing materials, nothing would prevent to lure the girls into an apartments near the site of their disappearance and to murder them there. This version is confirmed indirectly by the fact that the ritual was not completed - the child was crying, and whatever the sound-proofing was there, it probably caused suspicions of the neighbors.

The neighbors could start knocking, force their way into the apartment, asking what happens with you there, that is why the religious fanatics finished off the child, contrary to the ritual, in order not to draw attention. The girl has a clear separation of the body into color areas. The legs and lower half of the body are completely white - this is an exsanguination. And a bright red color of the head suggests a picture that is typical for the destruction of small vessels bed.

The head tissues and the neck were saturated with blood as a result of the destruction of capillaries, and that is possible when an alive person is hanging upside down for a long time. In order to break the capillary network, you need quite a long exposure - the heart has to drive the blood. Because of a redistribution, the blood goes into the pulmonary circulation circle, creating high hydrodynamic pressure, which small vessels do not withstand. And and a saturation with blood of tissues, which are fed from the pulmonary circulation circle, takes place, which gives a typical red color".

"I would like to draw special attention of everybody - Mr. Khramov continues - that the murder was not just ritual, but it was also public. The child murderers could take - and that is the most difficult - the bodies to a car and cover up their tracks in the mountains, it is only 15 minutes to drive from the center of Sevastopol to the nearest forest. But the children were thrown out in a public place, which again confirms the ritual nature of the murders".

"Another proof of that is the fact that girls were killed one week before they are discovered. Mucous membranes of their genital organs were rotten. If the murderers were Satanists, then the victims would have been raped before the murders. But according to Talmudic canons, an intercourse with living Christian girls is bestiality. The bodies of the girls were thrown out a week after the murder exactly to conceal that they were not raped and died as virgins.

According to Talmudic canons, the blood of Christian children and Christian virgins is especially valuable. The murder was not committed by one person - every ritual murder means a system. This system works, the crime occurred somewhere in apartment houses nearby, and most likely the murders have a high social status, and only a lack of a firm position of the authorities prevents their capture.

If a person occupies a high social position, a public post in the first place, he could be seen, he could be identified, but people are simply afraid to speak, and they watch the strange stance of the authorities. For example, they are afraid to tell that they saw a respected person entering a car with the girls. Accordingly, our Christian children in the Russian city of Sevastopol are without protection today.

The authorities do not fulfill their basic function - protecting children. Therefore, we, the Russian Christian community will keep this issue under control, we will not allow to shift off these brutal murders on innocent people. And we say that those who committed them will not avoid punishment", the leader of the "Sobol" concluded.
Only force rules. Force is the first law - Adolf H. Man has become great through struggle - Adolf H. Strength lies not in defense but in attack - Adolf H.
Old March 21st, 2012 #9
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Jews have also dominated the abortion industry, where they rip and shred babies to pieces, without even anaesthetic, revelling in the babies screams and struggles, then selling the body parts.
Fat from babies is made into collagen, which is used or cosmetic plastic surgery.
Just as serial killers sometimes keep mementos of their victims, Jews inject their victims fat into their own bodies.

Fetal body parts used for research

Is it ethical to experiment on aborted humans?
Nov 05 Investigate, also reprinted as part of the book Eve’s Bite by Ian Wishart

It’s the hidden side of medical research. A massive industry harvesting pieces of dead children for experiments, or transplanting into animals. IAN WISHART discovers the University of Auckland has imported body parts from American babies for a research project, and asks some hard questions:

There are puddles of water in the gloomy corridors of Auck-land University’s School of Medicine, leftovers from a spring rainstorm and some bad building maintenance on this grey September afternoon. This nondescript urban edifice, now in the shadow of the new Auckland Hospital extensions, houses dark secrets. Or so Investigate has been told.

“They’re doing an undergraduate presentation next week in the Department of Optometry and Vision Science,” a source in Auckland’s optometry community confides in a cryptic email. “Thought you might be interested to investigate a research project involving tissue from aborted fetuses.”

Optometry. Eye doctors. Hardly the first branch of medicine that springs to mind as the cutting edge of macabre experimentation. But inside the Cole Lecture Theatre, safely sheltered from the weather and the waterlogged corridor, fifty or so medical students have filled the room almost to capacity as teams of fourth-year undergrads present the results of this year’s main research projects.

An American woman holds court, a scientific Mistress of Ceremonies taking clear pleasure in parading her protégés to their medical colleagues as they make audio-visual presentation after presentation. She is Dr Keely Bumsted O’Brien, and this is her baby, so to speak.

Across the road, in the big hospital’s emergency rooms and oncology units, specialists, intensivists, nurses and registrars are working frantically to save the living. Here, in the School of Medicine, it turns out O’Brien’s team has been dissecting the dead. And not just any dead.

“The title of the project,” tipped our source, “is ‘Photoreceptor-associated gene expression in human fetal and embryonic chicken retina’. As far as I am aware this project is unlikely to have received regional ethics approval from the Ministry of Health. The tissue has been obtained from elective abortions in the United States and was transported here for the experiments. This may be the first research of its kind in New Zealand and I am sure the public are quite unaware of it.”

Just how did body parts from a group of aborted American infants end up in New Zealand for students to conduct experiments on? To find the answers, we began investigations in the United States, and a controversy that blew up there six years ago.


It was an interview that shocked America. An Insider, spilling the beans on massive malpractice to a reporter on ABC’s 20/20. Only this time, it wasn’t Big Tobacco in the gunsights, it was the US abortion industry, exposed as harvesting the organs from aborted babies. According to former abortion clinic technician Dean Alberty, clinics were harvesting eyes, brains, hearts, limbs, torsos and other body parts for sale to the scientific market: laboratories wanting to test new drugs or procedures, or researchers trying to find the causes of genetic disorders or discover new ways of treating disorders like Parkinsons.

To make matters doubly embarrassing for authorities, the trafficking was taking place inside abortion clinics run by Planned Parenthood, the US affiliate of New Zealand’s Family Planning organization.

Alberty worked for a Maryland agency called the Anatomic Gift Foundation, which essentially acted as a brokerage between universities and researchers seeking body parts, and the abortion clinics providing the raw material. Alerted by the clinics about the races and gestations of babies due to be aborted each day, AGF technicians would match the offerings with parts orders on their client lists. Alberty and his colleagues would turn up at the abortions that offered the best donor prospects to begin dissecting and extracting what they needed before decay set in.

“We would have a contract with an abortion clinic that would allow us to go in…[to] procure fetal tissue for research. We would get a generated list each day to tell us what tissue researchers, pharmaceuticals and universities were looking for. Then we would go and look at the particular patient charts—we had to screen out anyone who had STDs or fetal anomalies. These had to be the most perfect specimens we could give these researchers for the best value that we could sell for.

“We were taking eyes, livers, brains, thymuses, and especially cardiac blood…even blood from the limbs that we would get from the veins” he said.

Alberty told of seeing babies wounded but alive after abortion procedures, and in one case a set of twins “still moving on the table” when clinicians from AGF began dissecting the children to harvest their organs. The children, he said, were “cuddling each other” and “gasping for breath” when medics moved in for the kill.

Alberty had been asked by a pro-life group, Life Dynamics, to provide information about activities in the clinics, and the issue caused enough national scandal to see an episode of ABC’s 20/20 devoted to it in March 2000.

On that programme, as in this magazine, the imagery was highly sanitized so as not to upset sensitive viewers. The closest 20/20 got to screening images of trafficked human fetal tissue was a pea-sized fragment of unidentifiable tissue in a glass Petri dish.

Life Dynamics founder Mark Crutcher later told media:

“We are sympathetic to the explanation offered by the ABC producer who told us after the show that the network could not broadcast footage of dismembered babies, baggies full of tiny human eyes or any other accurate footage of the ‘commodity’ being sold by the baby parts merchants. But this should have been stated in the programme. Showing scientists poking at slivers of flesh in a Petri dish through a microscope was deceptive and it dehumanizes this debate.”

In America, late-term abortions are permitted, even up to 30 weeks gestation. It’s a three day procedure and involves forcing the mother to go into labour but killing the baby with a spike to the base of the skull before it leaves the birth canal. Even so, according to Alberty, it wasn’t unusual out of the 30 or 40 late-term abortions each week to see several babies born alive on the operating table before clinicians could perform the procedure.

“They were coming out alive. The doctor would either break the neck or take a pair of tongs and basically beat the foetus until it was dead.”

Alberty’s testimony was verbal, and in many cases it was challenged by abortion providers who questioned his motives and accused him of “embellishing” the sordid details of the abortion industry. But Alberty the whistleblower wasn’t alone. Another former clinic manager, Eric Harrah, gave a video interview disclosing live births as the abortion industry’s “dirty secret”:

“It was always very disturbing, so the doctor would try to conceal it from the rest of the staff.”

One incident in particular haunts him. The clinic had begun inducing a woman 26 weeks pregnant, but sent her overnight to a nearby motel to await the full procedure in the morning. Instead, in the middle of the night she gave birth to a child and was brought back to the abortion clinic with the baby wrapped in a towel.

“I was in the scrub room when I saw the towel move,” says Harrah. “A nurse said, ‘Eric, you’re just tired. It’s three in the morning.’ Then we both looked and a little baby’s arm raised up out of the towel and was moving like a newborn baby. I screamed and ran out. The doctor came in and closed the door and when we went back in to process the baby out of the clinic into the lab, [the baby] had a puncture wound in his chest.”

In the United States, trafficking in baby parts for profit is a criminal offence. But to get around the problem, universities and researchers pay a fee – not for the parts themselves but for the “cost of extraction”. Thus, there are different fees depending on the amount of work involved. And shipping and handling is extra.

Harvesting fetal tissue is not yet illegal in the US. In fact, the programme at five major universities including the University of Washington is part funded by the US National Institutes of Health. It is the University of Washington that has been supplying Keely Bumsted O’Brien at the University of Auckland, with some of her eyeball retinas of aborted children.

The reality of the ethical boundaries wasn’t lost on the stu-dents gathered in the Auckland School of Medicine lecture theatre when fourth year undergrads Tim Eagle and Kimberly Taylor wrapped up their presentation on genetic testing the eyeballs of chicken embryos and human fetuses. They told the audience they’d used tissue from a 10 week human embryo, a 12 week and a 16 week foetus. When Keely Bumsted O’Brien called for questions from the audience, the first was an ethical one, from a female student somewhere up the front of the crowded auditorium. Had Eagle and Taylor, she wondered, run their project past the Auckland University Ethics Committee?

“We have ethical approval under Keely as referee, which is obvious by itself. Her current ethical approval worked for what we were doing so we basically used hers, which was obtained as far as we’re aware from America,” Taylor responded.

When Investigate rang O’Brien to clarify, she confirmed her teams were working on something big.

“There’s a large ongoing project, and I don’t think I need to tell you when and where I actually do specific things. Are you aware that importation of human tissue into New Zealand does not require any sort of permit?,” she countered.

Apparently, she’s right. Under current New Zealand law, you can import body parts to your heart’s content as long as you do it in a biosafe manner. But what about seeking approval from the Ministry of Health’s Northern Region Ethics Committee? Surely there must be laws governing the carrying out of experiments on aborted human infants in the name of science?

“No,” says O’Brien emphatically, “because you’re not required to, because it’s tissue, not alive.”

In other words, thanks to a loophole in New Zealand law, it is perfectly legal to conduct experiments on aborted human embryos. For all we know, there may be dozens of experiments being carried out on aborted children in research labs throughout New Zealand. The fetal eyes, O’Brien says, arrive in the country having been “snap frozen cryogenically” just minutes after death, then placed in formaldehyde.

So who supplies Auckland University with infant eyeball retinas? O’Brien repeatedly talks of the “organizations” that supply her, but names only one, the University of Washington.

“These organizations, like for example the University of Washington has a tissue programme. The UOW oversees the collection of tissue, they have their own ethics committee. So they have to be overseen by another committee. So to use fetal human tissue in NZ I have to go through the local ethics committee, and in addition the tissue that I’m gathering has to be gathered under a separate ethics protocol. That ethics protocol is overseen by the ethics committee that’s on site.”

When Investigate suggests that the body parts could be coming in without mothers even realizing their aborted baby had been harvested moments after death, O’Brien is outraged.

“Working with human fetal tissue is not taken lightly. You have to have respect for the donation of the tissue. Now the child obviously cannot give consent, it’s the mother that’s giving consent.”

“Do you think they’re asking these women, ‘do you mind if we keep the baby for medical research?’,” we ask.

“You absolutely have to! You absolutely positively have to! Do your homework man! You simply cannot take fetal tissue from an aborted foetus without informed consent from the mother. Oh my goodness, I’m shocked to hear you suggest that. I’m upset and shocked that you suggest that. Totally off base.”

But is it really off base? O’Brien insists that women seeking abortions are asked to sign consent forms authorizing the use of their dead babies for medical research. It leads to a terse exchange with Investigate.

“There is an informed consent form that the mother signs. She is not coerced, she is not paid any money. She is informed of all of her options. That informed consent was part of my approval that was produced and shown to the ethics committee here [in Auckland].”

Great, we thought. So O’Brien actually knew the names of the mothers involved and had presented copies of their consent to her peers?

“Absolutely not! That is so unethical! All I know is that the tissue was donated by the mother, and the mother has signed an informed consent form.”

But hang on, we asked, how do you know, if you don’t have a signed form with a name on it?

“I don’t keep those records on site.”

No, but somebody must.

“Yes, they are kept by the organization that coordinates the donation.”

So what, physically, does O’Brien have that proves there’s been informed consent from the mother?

“You cannot collect the tissue without informed consent from the mother. It is unethical for the organization that coordinates the collection of the tissue to provide me with any sort of information that might link it back to the mother.”

In other words, there’s no signed paperwork for O’Brien or the ethics committee to see. It’s done on trust. To Investigate’s knowledge, O’Brien has never seen a signed informed consent form.

So for all you know, we pushed her, it could be somebody in an office somewhere chucking out these forms on a word processor saying ‘yeah, we do all this’ and of course they don’t. “If you’ve never seen a signed copy, how do you know?”

And when Investigate went searching, those are exactly the kind of discrepancies we began to find. Like this extract from the Seattle Post Intelligencer newspaper in the wake of a congressional visit to the University of Washington lab:

“Women who agree to the use of their aborted babies for research sign a simple “informed consent” document at the abortion clinic, which includes no information on where the particular “donation” will be sent or how it will be used. This oversight is inconsistent with the regulation requiring “informed” consent, according to a physician familiar with research protocols, and could be problematic for the University of Washington laboratory.”

The newspaper also discovered other discrepancies in the University of Washington paperwork, such as the University letting outside labs fill in forms instead of doing the paperwork themselves. Nor was the University of Washington doing the actual organ harvesting at the abortion clinics, so the University itself was one step removed from the informed consent process in terms of verifying whether the consent was genuine. In other words, the University of Washington’s ethical oversight could not have included whether the tissue was harvested ‘ethically’, because the University has never been in a position to know.

The congressmen went away sufficiently concerned that six separate pieces of legislation were drafted to combat the harvesting of tissues. But with a change in administration, those bills went onto the backburner.

Then there’s the issue of the other ‘organisation’ O’Brien refers to but doesn’t name. Investigate traced two scientific papers published by O’Brien in the past 24 months. One, “Expression of photoreceptor-associated molecules during human fetal eye development”, was published in the journal Molecular Vision in 2003 and can be found on the internet through a Google search. In the paper, O’Brien discloses she used body parts supplied by the University of Washington, but also by a private broking firm like the controversial Anatomic Gift Foundation referred to earlier; this one is named Advanced Bioscience Resources, or ABR, and is based in California. After Anatomic Gift Foundation was sprung thanks to the testimony of insider Dean Alberty, Advanced Bioscience Resources moved to fill the fetal tissue power vacuum. In an industry now estimated to be worth around $2 billion globally, ABR is believed to be a major player, particularly as it’s prepared to supply organs harvested from second trimester late-term abortions, which the University of Washington refuses to do.

Investigate has confirmed that an early second trimester baby was dissected for the Auckland University study, making ABR the likely supplier to O’Brien. And O’Brien has used babies up to the fetal age of 22 weeks, according to her published studies.

Her Molecular Vision paper describes how experiments were “prepared from snap frozen intact human fetal eyes ranging from fetal week 9 to fetal week 19…labeling was performed in a large number of eyes within an age group.”

There is no disclosure in the internet version of the paper how many eyes were harvested for the experiments. At least ten babies from fetal weeks 9 to 22 are known to have been harvested for O’Brien’s second scientific paper we found, published in Investigative Ophthalmology and Visual Science in August 2004. Again, suppliers were both ABR and the University of Washington. One paper on eyes supplied by ABR describes how the baby’s eyes are “enucleated” from the skull – medical talk for being scooped out with a knife.

Although she was working at the University of Auckland at the time, O’Brien has told Investigate the experiments detailed in her published papers were carried out “elsewhere”.

And what do we know of Advanced Bioscience Resources? According to O’Brien, her suppliers operate with transparent ethical rules and committees. But Advanced Bioscience Resources appears far from transparent. At least one American news report says the company has refused to comment on its body parts trade, making it impossible to ask whether ABR’s practices comply with federal US law.

“We’re a biotechnology firm, we don’t talk to the press,” a company spokeswoman is quoted as saying on another occasion.

Investigate has confirmed that ABR supplied aborted baby brains to be injected into mice, as part of experiments creating a part human/part mouse chimera. The genetically-engineered mice have been given – all courtesy of aborted fetuses from ABR – a human immune system, a human fetal thymus, liver and lymph node. The mice are then infected with HIV as part of AIDS research.

The US National Institutes of Health, which funded the grisly harvesting and experiment, has refused to provide any written proof that ABR holds informed consent forms, nor has the NIH confirmed that mothers were told by ABR that organs from their dead babies would be transplanted into genetically-engineered mice.
ABR has also supplied baby hearts for transplantation into pigs, and fetal stem cells.

We asked O’Brien whether she felt modern scientists were stepping into a dark pedigree.

“Do you see a correlation between the boundaries of science and experimentation on humans in this area, and the dreams of Nazi Josef Mengele and others back in World War 2 and the kind of experiments they were conducting?”


Mengele had taken particular interest in dissecting live infants for medical experiments.

“You see no correlation?”

There was a pause as O’Brien drew in her breath. “What you’re trying to get me to say is that research on human fetal tissue is morally and ethically wrong, and I’m not going to say that. Because obviously I’m working on the tissue. I think the information to be gained is extremely valuable and it’s not something taken in lightly. I don’t think the information I use can be interpreted and used for eugenics. The reason that we have ethics committees is so we don’t have a scientific free for all.”

Other ethicists, like Paul Ramsey in the US, disagree however.

“Far from abortion settling the question of fetal research, it could be that sober reflection on the use of the human foetus in research could unsettle the abortion issue.”

Are human children, ask ethicists, any less-deserving of protection from medical experiments and execution than animals?

Pittsburgh-based researcher Suzanne Rini, who interviewed Ramsey and whose 1995 book Beyond Abortion: A Chronicle of Fetal Experimentation brought to light a body parts trade that’s existed since the 1950s, believes the very fact that scientists need the elixir of youth from fetuses may be the ethical catch-22 that kills the abortion industry. On the one hand, she says, medical researchers try to argue the foetus is not a live person. On the other, whether it’s a cure for Parkinson’s, diabetes, Huntington’s, MS or a range of other disorders, medical researchers claim the life in fetuses is the only thing that can save adults. But only if you kill the foetus first.

University of Auckland’s Deputy Vice Chancellor, Research – Tom Barnes – says it is ethical under current NZ law to harvest organs from fetuses for the sake of improving the lives of adults.

“As you know [Keely’s] research is looking at eyes. She’s trying to solve the problem of macular degeneration which is a disease that affects 60% of more of people who are 70 years old or over. She’s also trying to solve some problems to do with eye disease in younger people as well.”

It is a modern, relativistic idea that you can sacrifice the few for the good of the many. Indeed, this was one of the justifications Hitler used in whipping up hatred against Jewish, Gypsy and gay minorities. In 21st century form, the argument is more subtle: that if a cure for crippling diseases can be found by harvesting fetal organs from abortions, or growing human embryos in the laboratory for stem cell harvesting, then the deaths of those infants are justifiable because of the perceived greater good to the community at large.

Indeed, O’Brien makes a similar appeal when we ask what the ultimate benefit of dissecting children’s eyeballs is:

“You achieve knowledge, so that you can start to try and find therapies to help people regain their vision, or intervention so that you can help people who have congenital abnormalities that we might be able to fix them.

“Obviously I don’t think there should be a blanket ban on the use human fetal tissue because I think the information that you get out of the use of human tissue is very valuable in trying to help people.”

But is that a valid line of reasoning that justifies made-to-order abortions?

At the Nuremberg War Crimes trials, evidence was presented of horrific scientific experiments being performed on cap-tives in the concentration camps. The Nazi medics on trial attempted to justify it by saying the test subjects were due to die anyway and the knowledge gained would benefit the rest of humanity.

Needless to say, the Nazis were shot down in the courtroom (and later simply shot outside it) and Nuremberg issued a declaration condemning the role of the medical profession in experimentation and slaughter of innocents.

University of Auckland’s Keely Bumsted O’Brien resents modern scientists being likened to Hitler’s gruesome genetic engineers, and points out that when Germany’s Max Planck Institute for Brain Research recently discovered it possessed the brains of many Down’s Syndrome people slaughtered by the Nazis, the Institute did the decent thing.

“Rather than use [the brains for research], it was the decision of the Director to give those brains a decent burial. Which one could argue might be the ethical way to do it, if they were gathered by the Nazis in an unethical way dealing with eugenics. Now I don’t compare what I do to eugenics.”

But Investigate challenged O’Brien on her example.

“There is an arguable case that in 50 or a hundred years time society will look back and say the current Western practice of mass abortion was a similar sort of thing to what the Nazis did and they’ll look at it the same way, what’s your response to that?”

“I don’t think they will,” exclaims O’Brien. “And I think we take much more care in how we carry out the research than the Nazis did.”

It is clear to Investigate after an hour long interview with O’Brien that she is sincere in her beliefs, and she makes special mention of the fact that she respects the humanity of the tissue. She also attends an annual memorial service, she says, that the medical school has for the cadavers and tissue used during the year. Nonetheless, our inquiries into the baby parts business give no reason to think that the harvesting of organs in America from dead or dying infants is done more humanely than the Nazis did.

For a start, the death toll alone from abortion far eclipses anything Hitler was able to achieve. In fact, one estimate of the abortion tally in the West in the past 30 years is that more than 58 million lives have been lost. Once you kick in the figures for the rest of the world including China, more people have been killed by abortion in the past 30 years than in all wars in recorded history. For the record, international studies like a 1999 paper from International Family Planning perspectives suggest 46 million lives a year are taken throughout the world.

At the Mayfair Women’s Clinic in Aurora, Colorado, staff admitted under cross examination in court that they had so many aborted babies to get rid of that clinician Dr James Parks used to put the bodies of larger babies (up to week 22) into meatgrinders so the remains could be reduced to the consistency of toothpaste and flushed down sinks.

Leaked documents from inside abortion clinics have hit the headlines across the US, and they make dark reading. They’re order forms from scientists to agencies like Advanced Bioscience Resources, instructing what parts they need and how to get them.

“Dissect fetal liver and thymus and occasional lymph node from fetal cadaver within 10 (minutes of death).” “Arms and legs need not be intact.” “Intact brains preferred, but large pieces of brain may be usable.”

Or this, from a scientist studying the “Biochemical Characterization of human type X Collagen,” who requests “Whole intact leg, include entire hip joint, 22-24 weeks gest.”

The harvesting technician is asked to “dissect by cutting through symphasis pubis and include whole Illium [hip joint]. To be removed from fetal cadaver within 10 minutes.”

Another, from University of Colorado’s Gary J. Miller, a professor of pathology, seeks the prostate glands of 24 fetuses from the first and second trimesters. The glands, he says in his request to Anatomic Gift Foundation on November 10, 1998, are “To be removed and prepared within 5 minutes … after circulation has stopped.”

According to World magazine in the US, which broke the story, other specifications state that they are to be “preserved on wet ice,” “picked up immediately by applicant,” have “low risk no IV drug abuse or known sexually transmitted diseases,” and no prescription medications used by “donor” mother. The contract is signed both by Dr. Miller and, for the Regents of the University of Colorado, by “Sharon Frazier, Director of Purchasing.”

O’Brien refuses to believe there is anything dodgy about the fetal tissue harvesting operations in the US.

“I have to put my faith in the fact that the organizations that I’m obtaining tissue from are obtaining it in an ethical manner.”

But let’s look at that more closely. The American Society For Cell Biology, an association of cell biologists, lobbied hard against regulating the fetal tissue harvesting industry, including a suggestion that researchers should have to “verify that the tissue was obtained properly”. This condition, and others, were regarded as too onerous for the scientists to accept.

None of the many articles and papers Investigate has read on the issue suggest that the abortion clinics or tissue har-vesting organizations are subject to ethical oversight com-mittees. In fact, the Anatomic Gift Foundation, which is similar to ABR, openly puts the onus on its clients – the researchers – to get ethical approval before they make an organ purchase application. Investigate has found no evidence that AGF or ABR are themselves audited by anyone.

And how ethical is the behaviour of another big fetal tissue provider (until it was sprung in the ABC 20/20 programme), Opening Lines?

A division of Missouri and Illinois-based Consultative and Diagnostic Pathology Inc, Opening Lines made no bones about the fact it was in business to make money. A 20/20 producer, posing as a potential investor in the 11 year old company, visited its founder, pathologist Dr Miles Jones.

Jones, unaware he was being recorded on a hidden video camera, explained how his company obtained fetal parts from clinics across America for shipment to research labs.

“It’s market force,” Dr. Jones told the producer about how he sets his prices. “It’s what you can sell it for.” He said he was looking to set up an abortion clinic in Mexico in order to get more fetal tissue by luring women in with cut-price abortions.

“If you control the flow — it’s probably the equivalent of the invention of the assembly line.”

As to the financial benefits of his business, Jones was brutal about the demand from researchers: “If you have a guy that’s desperate for, let’s say, a heart, then he’ll pay you whatever you ask,” he said.

“That’s trading in body parts. There’s no doubt about it,” Arthur Caplan, director of the University of Pennsylvania’s Center for Bioethics, told the Alberta Report newspaper after reviewing Jones’ statements.

The Opening Lines corporate brochure reads more like a supermarket advertisement than an ethical, dignified approach to the death of a baby.

“The freshest tissue prepared to your specifications and delivered in the quantities you need it.”

Despite compiling a baby parts price list and charging fees, an FBI investigation concluded that Opening Lines had broken no laws in what it had done and how it had done it. So if the American ethical rules are tough, there’s been no evidence of it to date.

Then there’s the question of whether the University of Auckland Human Ethics Committee is tough enough in demanding proof of informed consent in cases like O’Brien’s.

You’ll remember O’Brien is insistent that she could not provide the University of Auckland with copies of the informed consent because it would be unethical for her to know the identities of the mothers who’d signed them.

“It is unethical for the organization that coordinates the collection of the tissue to provide me with any sort of information that might link it back to the mother.”

Contrast O’Brien’s statement with this extract from the ethical guidelines imposed on fetal tissue research by the University of Texas at Houston:

“An investigator proposing to use fetal tissue must complete an application form for full [Ethics Committee] review and approval. The application must include a copy of the consent form used to obtain consent for donating the tissue. [Ethics Committee] must be assured that the woman donating tissue has been given an opportunity to understand the procedures, any possible risks to her privacy and well-being, and to assure that she has an opportunity to give free and informed consent to the donation.” [emphasis added]

Additionally, the University of Texas requires that the consent form cannot be generic, and must relate to the actual research project that is planned, with “a short description of the reasons for the research.”

While O’Brien claims it would be unethical for her to know the donor or talk to them, the University of Texas requires its researchers to include on the woman’s copy of the consent form “the name and telephone number” of the researcher, so that the donor can make contact, ask further questions, and even withdraw their consent.

Implicit in this is that the researcher must take ethical responsibility for the collection of the tissue, and should know who the donor is. Both of these aspects corroborate the comments made about the flawed informed consent procedures of the University of Washington earlier in this report.

It is clear from O’Brien’s interview with Investigate that none of the women donating their dead babies’ eyeballs would have been able to reach her to withdraw their consent or ask questions.

But Investigate didn’t leave the issue there. Despite the fact that Advanced Bioscience Resources refuses to give media interviews, we obtained the cellphone number of its President, Linda Tracy, and we rang it. What we obtained is a world exclusive:

“We’re just doing a story on fetal tissue use over here in NZ, and one of the suppliers is ABR, and people tell us you guys are subject to ethical committee oversight, would that be right?”

“Who are you with again?”

“Investigate magazine.”

“OK, I don’t give any information to magazines or interviews to anyone.”

But just as Tracy was about to do what she’d done so many times before to American journalists – hang up – we reminded her that negative publicity could affect her business, and she had a responsibility to put her side of the story.

“In this particular case, the researcher says that the suppliers such as yourself are subject to ethical committee oversight. I’m trying to find out who is responsible for ethical oversight in terms of ABR, would it be you or is it the researcher who must seek approval?”


“What committee do you people report to, how does it work?”

“Well, we are overseen by the IRS, the Internal Revenue Service. As a non-profit organization we have guidelines to abide by, but that’s about the only regulatory committee that we are subject to.”

So much for ethical oversight. Is there, we asked, an external ethical committee that Advanced Bioscience Resources reports to or which oversees its baby harvesting operation?


What about the actual extraction of eyeballs and other fetal tissue, who carries that out?

“It is our responsibility to collect the tissue,” confirms Linda Tracy.

“So you’re in control of the process all the way through?”


This ‘ethical oversight’ is getting more fascinating by the minute. Which part of the process, we asked, was outside ABR’s control?

“The [abortion] clinic consents the patient.”

“And then the clinic provides you with the consent?”


“Is there any possibility that the clinic may not properly consent the patient, the clinic may take the view ‘we’re never going to see the patient back through here, they’re never going to know’, and they’ll just write out the forms. How do you know the clinic is doing the informed consent properly?”

“We just have to trust them,” says ABR’s Linda Tracy.

Don’t forget, the abortion clinic gets paid money for providing ‘office space’ to the harvesters, and has a financial interest in the success of harvesting as an industry.

Keely Bumsted O’Brien may have expressed “shock” and outrage when Investigate suggested the harvesting programmes could be ethically shonky, but the evidence now appears pretty damning.

Not only is there no ethical oversight of the abortion clinics, there is none on the companies doing the fetal tissue harvesting either. All the way through, the process appears to be done purely on “trust”.

And just how good is the actual informed consent process that the ethics committees rely on? According to the University of Texas, informed consent forms had to spell out what kind of research was specifically planned.

We asked ABR whether, for example, donating ‘mothers’ would be told their child’s organs would be used for eye studies, or for transplantation into animals for experiments?

“The law requires that we always state that it is possible that it may be used for important stem cell research, and if the patient asks specifically what it might be used for then that is explained to her verbally. The consent itself is somewhat generic except for the pluripotent stem cell use.” [our emphasis]

Based on Linda Tracy’s interview with Investigate, it now appears certain that no donating mother gave informed consent for her baby’s body parts to be transplanted into human/mouse hybrids, or injected into the veins of rats. Little wonder the US Government National Institutes of Health refused to release informed consent forms from ABR regarding those projects.

There was another aspect we wanted to clarify: O’Brien’s insistence that it would be unethical for her to see a donating mother’s consent form.

“Are those forms available to researchers if they need them for ethical approval?”, we asked Tracy.


Naturally, all these discoveries raised more questions than answers. We went back to the University of Auckland’s Tom Barnes, the man the university’s ethics committee reports to.

“Keely does have ethical approval from the University of Washington to do this and that ethical approval is current and has gone through their prescribed procedures.”

Barnes explained that the project is a collaboration with the University of Washington’s Anita Hendrickson, who was apparently the principal point of contact with tissue harvesters.

But Barnes was not aware that University of Washington’s ethical procedures were found wanting, as referred to earlier in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer report.

“I’m sorry, I can’t comment on that,” reflected Barnes. “I’d have to know exactly what the situation is before I comment.

“In terms of what this university knows, we have the ethical approval from Washington, and also the proposal has been examined by our ethics committee de novo [as if for the first time] as well.”

When we pointed out that neither University of Washington nor ABR had directly sought informed consent from women and instead relied on abortion clinics to get it, Barnes said the University of Auckland had to trust the paperwork in front of it.

“As I say, I understand the ethical approvals were granted over there and we have paperwork that backs that up. Whatever happened over there I can’t comment on.”

We explained to Barnes the stringent ethical conditions imposed on informed consent forms by the University of Texas, and asked whether he was satisfied that the University of Auckland’s ethical rigours were tough enough.

“Let me say that our ethics committee operates under guidelines that are set nationally, and those guidelines are approved by the HRC. I believe we have an ethics committee that is absolutely committed to research being done in the correct way and I believe they do an excellent job of that.”

Having said that, says Barnes, the University of Auckland will ponder Investigate’s allegations that the US ethical process is flawed.

And what about the overall ethical issue of whether human infants should be experimented on at all? Barnes says it is legal under current New Zealand law, and proposed new rules to control it have not yet come into effect. When we again raise the comparison with Auschwitz, Barnes rejects the analogy.

“I think that’s entirely inappropriate.”


“Well it’s a totally different situation.”


“If you accuse, by default, Keely of behaving like somebody in a Nazi death camp, I do think that’s unfair. If the issues you’ve raised about ethical approval in America are resolved satisfactorily, if the mothers are in fact giving informed consent for the use of their tissue, that’s really quite different to somebody who’s in a Nazi death camp being experimented on,” says Barnes.

But doesn’t the answer, we pointed out, really turn on whether the fetus is the ‘mother’s tissue’ to dispose of in the first place?”

“We make sure we fall within the ethical guidelines as they are laid down,” says Barnes. “Whether those guidelines are flawed or not or whether they’ll change or not is a matter for the future, and in the meantime we have to operate within those constraints.

“To be honest with you, I think that that [whether a foetus is an individual human life or just part of the mother] is a broader debate which would have to take place in the country at large.”

It’s a good point. Researchers talk of the baby simply being “the mother’s tissue”, but advances in DNA mean we now know the foetus has its own unique DNA and tissue, and is not merely an extra piece of maternal flesh. The mother, in real scientific terms, can no more “own” the foetus on such grounds than she can “own” her older children and consent to their execution and vivisection. Is it time for renewed public debate?

It’s an argument that the University of Auckland is sympathetic to.

“You have to sort of balance the tremendous potential of this research to solve some absolutely debilitating problems – people being blind for years and so on. So we do the best we can at balancing all these factors within the guidelines and the law as it stands, and we contribute to and take part in that ethical debate and we will abide by what comes out of that ethical debate. We’re not trying to cover anything up.

“If the result of that debate that you’re referring to is that it’s unethical to work with this kind of tissue, then we wouldn’t do. No question.”

Another who shares that view is Steven Bamforth, a Canadian geneticist harvesting fetal tissue at the University of Alberta for his research colleagues. Every day, his job entails sifting through aborted remains, searching for recognizable eyes, hearts, livers and other organs sought after by universities.

“The humanity is always before us,” Dr. Bamforth told Alberta Report magazine recently. “If society said this research is not acceptable, of course, we would immediately desist. It’s not something that I do happily.”

Nor does the “helping older people with their health” excuse carry water with Christopher Hook, of Illinois’ Centre for Bioethics and Human Dignity. He told World magazine the exploitation of pre-born children was “too high a price regardless of the supposed benefit. We can never feel comfortable with identifying a group of our brothers and sisters who can be exploited for the good of the whole. Once we have crossed that line, we have betrayed our covenant with one another as a society, and certainly the covenant of medicine.”

In New Zealand, the issue of conducting medical experiments on dead bodies – both adult and fetal – is currently the subject of an ethics committee review by the Ministry of Health. Keely Bumsted O’Brien was one of those who made submissions to hearings prior to the issue of a draft report last year, Review of the Regulation of Human Tissue and Tissue-based Therapies, available on the web.

The 131 page document records a majority of submissions believe research should be prohibited on bodies where the wishes of the deceased were not known prior to death, even if the family give their consent post-mortem. As a foetus cannot express its wishes, such a restriction could impact on the use of fetal tissue, especially if society eventually reaches a decision that a foetus is a human life.

Even so, the document also notes growing unease at the use of fetal tissue for experiments, and the fact that it currently falls outside of the regulations, and the Ministry is now considering giving fetal tissue fresh ethical protection. How far it goes will depend, ultimately, on public debate.


Opening Lines Fee for Services Schedule
> age greater than
< age same or less than Unprocessed Specimen (> 8 weeks) $ 70
Unprocessed Specimen (< 8 weeks) $ 50
Livers (< 8 weeks) 30% discount if significantly fragmented $150 Livers (> 8 weeks) 30% discount if significantly fragmented $125
Spleens (< 8 weeks) $ 75 Spleens (> 8 weeks) $ 50
Pancreas (< 8 weeks) $100 Pancreas (> 8 weeks) $ 75
Thymus (< 8 weeks) $100 Thymus (> 8 weeks) $ 75
Intestines & Mesentery $ 50
Mesentery (< 8 weeks) $125 Mesentery (> 8 weeks) $100
Kidney-with/without adrenal (< 8 weeks) $125 Kidney-with/without adrenal (> 8 weeks) $100
Limbs (at least 2) $150
Brain (< 8 weeks) 30% discount if significantly fragmented $999 Brain (> 8 weeks) 30% discount if significantly fragmented $150
Pituitary Gland (> 8 weeks) $300
Bone Marrow (< 8 weeks) $350 Bone Marrow (> 8 weeks) $250
Ears (< 8 weeks) $ 75 Ears (> 8 weeks) $ 50
Eyes (< 8 weeks) 40% discount for single eye $ 75 Eyes (> 8 weeks) 40% discount for single eye $ 50
Skin (> 12 weeks) $100
Lungs & Heart Block $150
Intact Embryonic Cadaver (< 8 weeks) $400 Intact Embryonic Cadaver (> 8 weeks) $600
Intact Calvarium $125
Intact Trunk (with/without limbs) $500
Gonads $550
Cord Blood (Snap Frozen LN2) $125
Spinal Column $150
Spinal Cord $325
Secede. Control taxbases/municipalities. Use boycotts, divestment, sanctions, strikes.

Last edited by Hugh; March 21st, 2012 at 01:45 AM.
Old August 7th, 2012 #10
Michael Ellis
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 9
Michael Ellis

I have to be a bit vague here- but there was a cold case murder of a pre-teen boy in my area some time ago that I wonder about. It took place during Purim and the eyewittnesses described a person of interest Semetic looking. Throat cut, the whole thing. Hushed up ever since. Makes ya wonder..
Old March 8th, 2013 #11
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,105
Default A more than a century old painting, portraying human sacrifice practiced by Jews revealed

Allegedly this taboo-breaking piece of art was a very secret work of Hungarian painter genius, Munkácsy Mihály, realized between 1882-1887, at the request of Russian tzar, Alexander III, and inspired by the world-famous Tiszaeszlár Affair (Hungary, 1882), which was a blood-libel directed against a group of Jews, who murdered 14 year-old Solymosi Eszter inside a sacrificial ritual. The painting is absolutely monumental in depicting Jewish thirst for "goyim" blood. The young girl can also represent modern Europe as being encircled by demonic Zionists and prepared for being crucified.

Old March 9th, 2013 #12
Gerry Fable
Religion: Gottgläubiger
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,623
Gerry Fable

There is no-doubt that Jewish ritual sacrifice is real and not the product of so-called 'anti-Semitism'. I would like to pose a few questions about this issue.

1. Would it be fair to say that ritual sacrifice is connected to Rabbis that follow the Talmud and the Kabbalah? Rather than the Torah itself?

2. Rabbis that follow their religious instruction from the Torah, rather than the Talmud, can they also follow the Kabbalah if they so choose?

3. Apparently, the Kabbalah is the mystical occult teaching behind Freemasonry. Do Freemasons conduct ritual sacrifice as well?

4. It is claimed that Freemasonry is in fact Satanism by another name. Are Rabbis that follow the Talmud, and Kabbalah, practicing Satanists?

5. Where does this leave orthodox Jews that follow the Torah?

“Most Jews do not like to admit it, but our god is Lucifer.”

I don't know what to make of Viki Polin and her infamous appearance on Oprah Winfrey. She may well have been severely traumatized by the years of sexual abuse by her father. And to come to terms with this, her psyche 'invented' the Satanic element encouraged by her Jewish psychiatrist.

However, Viki Polin has never gone back on her words and said she was wrong about her claims on the show. That her Jewish family were indeed Satanists and a Rabbi raped her on the Torah scrolls. Her personal demeanor today, as witnessed in the above video, is vastly improved from her appearance on the Oprey Winfrey show.
Gottgläubig: The Religion of the Blood

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Last edited by Gerry Fable; March 9th, 2013 at 10:13 PM.
Old September 26th, 2016 #13
Karl Radl
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Default Brother Theobald’s Testimony on Jewish Ritual Murder

Brother Theobald’s Testimony on Jewish Ritual Murder

In the first classic jewish ritual murder case in the medieval world, which concerned the murder of the twelve year old William of Norwich by local jews. The only chronicler of the details of the case, Thomas of Monmouth, cites the testimony of one of his fellow brethren named Theobald in regards to why the jews committed the deed.

Thomas of Monmouth writes:

‘We also interpose as an argument of faith and truth what we have heard told by Theobald, a person who was once a Jew and later one of our monks. He told us that in the ancient writings of their ancestors it was written that Jews could not achieve their freedom or ever return to the lands of their fathers without the shedding of human blood. Hence it was decided by them a long time ago that every year, to the shame and affront of Christ, a Christian somewhere on earth be sacrificed to the highest God, and so they take revenge for the injuries of Him, whose death is the reason for their exclusion for their fatherland and their exile as slaves in foreign lands.

Therefore, the leaders and rabbis of the Jews who dwell in Spain, at Narbonne, where the seed of kings and their glory, flourishes greatly, meet together, and cast lots of all the regions where Jews live. Whichever region was chosen by lot, its capital city had to apply that lot to the other cities and towns, and the one whose name comes up will carry out that business, as decreed. In that year, however, when William, the glorious martyr of God, was killed, it so happened that the lot fell on the men of Norwich, and all the communities of the Jews of England offered their consent by letters or by messengers for the crime to be performed at Norwich. ‘I was at the time in Cambridge, a Jew among Jews, and the crime of the action performed was not hidden from me. With the passage of time, when I learned of the glorious miracles which by divine virtue happened through the merits of the blessed martyr William, I was greatly afraid and, consulting my conscience and left Judaism and converted to the faith of Christ.’ These words, indeed, of the Jewish convert we believe to be all the truer for having learned them from a converted enemy, revealed by someone privy to the secrets of the enemies.’ (1)

Theobald, a convert from Judaism, has long been the subject of debate. Nearly all scholars dismiss his assertions as groundless, but some scholars have even claimed that Theobold never existed. (2) That said modern historians tend towards the belief that he did in fact exist. (3)

Now contrary to much of the previous commentary on Theobald: (4) I don’t think Theobald’s claims are as far-fetched as these scholars assume.

Langmuir has argued that ‘we would know’ about such a cult or practice due to the ‘massive amount of documentary evidence’ that we have. (5)

This is not necessarily true because there are a lot of things we don’t know about Judaism despite the aforementioned ‘massive evidence’. We don’t know why the meat and milk differentiation in the laws of Kashruth came to be interpreted figuratively (i.e. you cannot mix meat and milk) in the Mishnah when it was only previously interpreted literally (i.e. you cannot cook an animal in their own mother’s milk). (6)

For another we have little information concerning the Cathar heresy in a similar time period, which has led some scholars to conclude that it was never a defined religious community but rather the figment of the imagination of Catholic scholastics. (7)

Thus saying ‘we would know about it’ is not an argument against Theobald’s assertions and nor is it absurd that we wouldn’t know about it. After all what has survived to be studied and read by historians to this day from the pre-modern past is largely a historical accident.

I contend that there are actually traces of this kind in the historical record, but that in order to see them. We have to get forget the absurd presumption, common to many modern historians, that the jews have never done anything wrong and therefore we must always look for alternative explanations for accusations levelled at them.

Horowitz has for example demonstrated that when we remove this intellectual filter and examine jews as we would any other people. We see that they have frequently exhibited an intense religious based hatred of Christians and particularly of the twin symbols of the cross and crucifix.

This leads to us taking seriously credible accounts from both jewish and non-jewish sources of jews deliberately urinating in baptismal waters and on crosses, (8) attacking crosses during a Christian processions, (9) provocatively throwing meat bones into a Church while mass was being celebrated on Good Friday (10) as well as simply burning down churches. (11)

Before and during the medieval era; jews are known to have beat Christians with canes (for religious reasons) and scourged crucifixes in the privacy of their own homes. (12) The epicentre of these activities was Spain (13) which is the same place that Theobald alleges was the centre of this cult/group. It is therefore not much of an intellectual stretch to suggest that if Spain had a history of jewish anti-Christian religious violence that such could have been transmitted to jews in other parts of Europe.

To counter Theobald’s testimony Rose discusses the successful efforts of Rabbi Jacob Tam to bring together circa one hundred rabbis from across Europe to discuss questions of jewish law in 1150 AD, which is six years after William was killed. (13) This is notable but doesn’t actually relate to Theobald’s testimony since Thomas specifically refers to the jews of Spain meeting in Narbonne and then whichever region is selected also meets to determine which of their communities are to do the deed.

Thus it isn’t likely to be what Thomas and Theobold are referring to.

Rose however does point out that Theobold must have had significant jewish learning because he was aware of the Nasi (i.e. Prince of the jews) in Narbonne in the twelfth century. (14) This means that Theobold must have himself have been jewish as Thomas of Monmouth doesn’t demonstrate similar learning in the rest of his ‘The Life and Passion’ and isn’t likely to have acquired that knowledge either.

This therefore suggests we have to take Theobald seriously as a source on the ritual murder accusation. I don’t wish to delve too deeply here into the William of Norwich trial. And I would point out however that while Theobald’s testimony is likely conflating a much smaller jewish group, likely based around a single obscure Rav’s teachings, within Judaism with ‘all the jews’.

What it does mean is that it is imminently probable that Theobald is telling the truth about what happened as he understood it.

His knowledge and presence within the case by his own admission as well as his inexplicable sudden conversion to Christianity and desire of a religious life (which freed him from the judgment of secular courts) also suggests an intriguing possibility: was Theobald himself one of the murderers of William of Norwich?

It is both an eminently plausible and provocative theory, but as I shall explore in another article: it is likely to be something approaching the truth of the case.


(1) Thomas of Monmouth, The Life and Passion of William of Norwich, 2:11 (Rubin translation)
(2) Gavin Langmuir, 1984, ‘Thomas of Monmouth: Detector of Ritual Murder’, pp. 22-24 in Alan Dundes (Ed.), 1991, ‘The Blood Libel Legend: A Casebook in Anti-Semitic Folklore’, 1st Edition, The University of Wisconsin Press: Madison
(3) Ibid; E. M. Rose, 2015, ‘The Murder of William of Norwich: The Origins of the Blood Libel in Medieval Europe’, 1st Edition, Oxford University Press: New York, pp. 82-83
(4) For example Langmuir, Op. Cit., pp. 22-24
(5) Ibid, p. 23
(6) Jordan Rosenblum, 2010, ‘Food and Identity in Early Rabbinic Judaism’, 1st Edition, Cambridge University Press: New York, pp. 141-142
(7) Cf. R. I. Moore, 2014, ‘The War on Heresy: Faith and Power in Medieval Europe’, 1st Edition, Belknap Press: Cambridge
(8) Elliot Horowitz, 2007, ‘Reckless Rites: Purim and the Legacy of Jewish Violence’, 1st Edition, Princeton University Press: Princeton, pp. 165-167
(9) Ibid, p. 150
(10) Ibid, p. 153
(11) Ibid, p. 160
(12) Ibid, pp. 174-179
(13) Rose, Op. Cit., p. 85
(14) Ibid, p. 86


This was originally published at the following address:
Old January 24th, 2017 #14
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Default Jewish Ritual Murder and Jack the Ripper

Jewish Ritual Murder and Jack the Ripper

The subject of Jewish Ritual Murder - or the Blood Libel as it is often pejoratively called by its critics – is one that is close to my heart. Since it was the study of it and my scepticism towards the hand-waving and weird claims of the ‘jews would never have done that’ camp was the original impetus for beginning my study of jews and Judaism.

I would thus be remiss if I didn’t mention the occasional references that have suggested that tales of Jewish Ritual Murder may have influenced or been the motive for Jack the Ripper’s killing spree. (1)

This was certainly believed to be a possibility at the time of original Ripper killings since no less than ‘The Times’ newspaper suggested that this was indeed a plausible motivation (and in a sense solution) that lay behind them. (2) However it also true to say that anti-Semites themselves have not historically put much credence in the claim that the Jack the Ripper murders were a revival of Jewish Ritual Murder in England. (3)

Possibly the best attempt to argue this case has been made by Robert House in ‘Ripperologist’ in 2005. In ‘Aaron Kosminski Reconsidered’ he writes as follows:

‘By the time Aaron was an adolescent, there was widespread anti-Semitism in Russia. Influential newspapers forgot their Jewish sympathies, and anti-Semitic literature appeared, containing both intellectual and obscene content. Anti-Semitism also began to gain a semblance of intellectual respectability as a result of the new ‘scientific’ anti-Semitism of western, mostly German, origin.

In 1878, when Aaron was 13 or 14 years old, the myth of the ‘Blood Libel,’ outlawed by Alexander I, was revived in Kutais in anti-Semitic newspapers like Novoye Vremya. Based in part on the ritual murder of the child Simon of Trent and others, this myth held that the Jews participated in the ritual murder of Christian children, using their blood to appease the wrath of God. Specifically, the blood libel myth held that that ‘Jews had kidnapped a Christian child, tied him to a cross, stabbed his head to simulate Jesus’ crown of thorns, killed him, drained his body of blood and mixed the blood into Passover matzohs.’ If a Christian child was found murdered near Easter or Passover, there was a good chance that local Jews would be blamed. Into the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, at least two dozen ritual murder trials took place in Central and Eastern Europe.’ (4)

This is fine as far as it goes, but I note with pointed interest that the ‘blood libel’ – which is incidentally a pejorative propaganda term used to delegitimise free and open discussion of allegations of jewish ritual murder – that what he is citing here is the fully fledged ritual murder accusation as a point of comparison. (5)

House cites as his primary examples the ritual murders of Saint Simon of Trent and Saint Andreas of Rinn. He claims that in the case of Saint Simon of Trent; the jews sliced pieces of Simon’s flesh off and ate them in addition to mixing his blood with their Pesach matzo so they could consume it. (6)
However I cannot find any reference to anything of the kind in the literature of the subject. (7) The perpetrators eating the flesh of the victim in a case of jewish ritual murder is almost unheard of.

The charge of host desecration is similar and would have been viewed as such at the time of the trials at Rinn and Trent. Unfortunately for House of course, as with jewish ritual murder, the charge that it was and is a ‘libel’ is absurd as Horowitz has demonstrated. (8)

House’s argument that Kosminski ‘carried this the blood libel over’ from Eastern Europe and acted it out in London (9) is thus unfounded, because jewish ritual murder involves the torture of the victim in imitation of the suffering of Christ (the crown of thorns, whipping/flaying, the wounds in his hands and feet and the wound in his side) and the collection of blood to be eaten with matzo on Pesach.

None of the Ripper killings bear any likeliness whatsoever to this description, but House’s suggestion that Kosminski could have been working to kill Christian women of the ‘underclass’ could certainly be true.

After all non-jewish women seeking to have sexual intercourse with jews – and it is worth remembering that all Jack the Ripper’s victims were non-jewish prostitutes in a heavily jewish part of London – would be viewed pejoratively as traditional dangerous foes of the jewish community (i.e. as shiksas) and would thus Kosminski could have killed them for that reason, but that is something best discussed elsewhere.

It is sufficient to say here that the Jack the Ripper murders were without doubt not cases of jewish ritual murder, because the evidence does not support this claim.


(1) For example:
(2) Judith Flanders, 2011, ‘The Invention of Murder’, 1st Edition, Harper Collins: London, p. 442
(3) Arnold Leese, 1938, ‘My Irrelevant Defence’, 1st Edition, The IFL Printing Company: London, p. 55
(4) Robert House, 2005, ‘Aaron Kosminski Reconsidered’, Ripperologist, No. 58 (
(5) Darren O’Brien, 2011, ‘The Pinnacle of Hatred: The Blood Libel and the Jews’, 1st Edition, The Hebrew University Magnes Press: Jerusalem, pp. 63-65
(6) House, Op. Cit.
(7) Ronnie Po-Chia Hsia, 1992, ‘Trent 1475: Stories of a Ritual Murder Trial’, 1st Edition, Yale University Press: New Haven, pp. 46-47; 62-68
(8) Cf. Elliot Horowitz, 2007, ‘Reckless Rites: Purim and the Legacy of Jewish Violence’, 1st Edition, Princeton University Press: Princeton
(9) House, Op. Cit.


This was originally published at the following address:
Old January 27th, 2018 #15
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Polytheism and Human Sacrifice in Early Israelite Religion

The following is an interview with Thom Stark, a scholar of ancient and modern religious texts. Stark is currently an M.A.R. student at Emmanuel School of Religion in Johnson City, Tenn. His first book, released in October, is called The Human Faces of God: What Scripture Reveals When It Gets God Wrong (and Why Inerrancy Tries To Hide It). In chapters 4 and 5, Mr. Stark systematically lays out evidence that polytheism and human sacrifice were practiced widely as a part of early Yahweh worship.

I have to start with a question that may sound rude. Most people would expect that someone writing about human sacrifice and polytheism in the Bible would be an atheist or agnostic. And yet you describe yourself as a very committed Christian. Help me put the pieces together.

Well, I hail from the Stone-Campbell tradition, an anti-creedal protestant movement that is committed to discovering what the Bible says, even if what the Bible says contradicts what orthodox Christianity has historically said. That commitment to the Bible over the creeds is what underwrote my biblical studies, and ironically is what made it possible for me to come to the realization that the Bible isn’t inerrant, and that what “it says” often depends on which book in the Bible you’re reading.

At this point, many Christians would abandon their faith, because their faith is in the creeds, and in an idea of an inerrant Bible. For me, on the other hand, taking the Bible seriously meant taking all of the conflicting voices within the Bible seriously, and I was able to see the value in that. What informs my faith is not so much what the Bible “says” as it is what the Bible displays, the processes that unfold in its pages, the struggle to find meaning that it represents. It’s precisely in the humanity of the Bible that we can gain real insight into the divine. What’s revelatory is not always the words themselves, but the spaces between them.

So, based on your studies, what is the story that the Bible tells?

That’s just the thing. The Bible doesn’t really tell one story. And by that I don’t just mean that the Bible is a collection of different stories. I mean that the Bible consists of a spectrum of competing stories. The Bible is sort of like a choose-your-own-adventure book, except none of the alternative storylines ever gets resolved. They’re all particular stories, about a people called Israel, their god Yahweh, and the relationship of Israel and Yahweh to the rest of the world. They all try to explain why Israel is suffering, why the world is broken, and how through the reversal of Israel’s fortunes the world is going to be mended, but they posit different answers to those questions.

There are several different authors trying to make sense of the same basic material, but each of them arranges it in different ways, and none of them do it just right. The royal historians declared that the Davidic dynasty would last forever, but it didn’t. The prophets predicted the restoration of Israel’s national sovereignty, but Israel wasn’t restored. Jesus predicted the end of the world as we know it, but the world as we know it didn’t end.

If the Bible does tell a single story, it’s a story that transcends each of the stories its many authors intended to tell. It tells the story of a nation trying to contend for its survival in a hostile world and trying to explain the fact of suffering with reference to the only thing they thought could explain it: the will of Yahweh.

Who is the Yahweh of the Israelites?

Well as scholars like Frank Cross, Chris Rollston, Mark Smith and others have demonstrated and have known for some time, the earliest texts in the Hebrew Bible give a strong indication that the early conception of Yahweh was that he was an ancient Near Eastern tribal deity. As I argue in my book, following Rollston, the Song of Moses in Deuteronomy 32 indicates that Yahweh was believed to have been one of the children of the Canaanite deity El Elyon (God Most High). The song describes how the nations were originally formed, and what it says is that the peoples of the earth were divided up according to the number of El Elyon’s children (the junior members of the divine pantheon). Yahweh, Israel’s patron deity, was one of Elyon’s children.

The best evidence suggests that Yahweh did not begin as the “only true God” of later Jewish monotheism; he did not begin as the creator of the world. Yahweh began as a young, up-and-coming tribal deity whose prowess among other gods mirrored Israel’s aspirations vis-a-vis surrounding tribes and nations.

You’re saying God evolves in the Old Testament?

Exactly. Surprise of surprises, as Israel aspired to greatness and sought to make a name for itself, surrounded by vast empires, Yahweh got bigger and bigger, until he became so grandiose in their theologies that it no longer made sense to refer to the other national deities as gods at all — so vastly superior was Yahweh to the gods of other nations, according to Judean propaganda literature.

Tell us more about this evolution from tribal deity to monotheism.

Well as Chris Rollston argues, there are various stages in Israel’s progression from polytheism to monotheism. Yahweh begins as a junior member of the divine pantheon. This is the view during the tribal confederation period of Israel’s history. After Israel became a monarchy, Yahweh gets a promotion to head of the pantheon, taking his father Elyon’s place. (This parallels similar ideas in Babylonian literature, in which Marduk’s ascendancy to king of the gods mirrors the rise of the Babylonian empire.)

Over time, Yahweh and Elyon are conflated, they sort of merge into one god. At this stage Yahweh starts to be seen as creator-god. But in this period, Israel still believes in other gods; it’s just that they’re not supposed to worship other gods because they owed their allegiance to Yahweh, their patron deity. Of course, Yahweh was believed to have had a wife, Asherah, and it is clear that Israelites worshiped her as Yahweh’s consort.

This seems to have been acceptable orthodoxy until the seventh century BCE or so. At that point, prophets like Jeremiah began to polemicize other gods, calling into doubt their very existence. This idea that Yahweh alone is God is solidified during the Babylonian exile in the sixth century for a complex set of reasons. This is when official Israelite religion finally became monotheistic.

And early on, the chosen people practiced human sacrifice? Let’s hear it. What’s your evidence?

Well the evidence is complex, and I lay much of it out in my book. But the short version is that human sacrifice was a rare but widespread practice in ancient Near Eastern religion, and there is evidence that until about the seventh and sixth centuries BCE, it was an acceptable part of Israelite and Judean religion as well. There’s the story of the near-sacrifice of Isaac by his father Abraham. It is popularly believed that because an angel prevented Abraham from killing his son at the last moment, the story constitutes a condemnation of child sacrifice. But that’s not the case. Isaac is spared not because human sacrifice is seen to be immoral, but because Isaac was the child of promise and needed to survive. In reality, the account depends upon the logic of human sacrifice, because Abraham is praised for his willingness to kill his own son to appease Yahweh.

There is evidence that ancient Israelites believed that human sacrifices could be offered to Yahweh in exchange for victory in battle against their enemies. The Israelite warrior Jephthah sacrificed his virgin daughter to Yahweh in fulfillment of a vow he made in order to secure Yahweh’s help in battle. The same ideology can be seen in some early accounts of the Canaanite conquest, in which Yahweh gives Israelites victory against Canaanite armies, and the Israelites in turn slaughter all of the women and children in payment to Yahweh for his aid.

There’s also evidence that Yahweh commanded human sacrifice in the law of Moses. Later, when the practice of human sacrifice fell into disrepute among elite circles, the prophet Ezekiel confirms that Yahweh commanded human sacrifice, but interprets that command as a form of punishment for Israel’s disobedience. Ezekiel needed a way to deal with that tradition found in Exodus 22, and did so by claiming that Yahweh ordered them to kill their firstborn sons as a way of getting back at them for their lack of faith in him. Obviously Ezekiel’s solution to the problem was problematic in itself, but at least we can thank him for helping to put an end to the institution of child sacrifice in Israelite religion.

I’ve heard evangelicals explain that the reason God prescribed scorched earth policies in the Old Testament was because the surrounding nations were so evil — that they practiced child sacrifice. (God sent warnings; they didn’t heed them.) Is this just a desperate attempt to justify the unconscionable?

Yeah, well that justification is in the Bible itself, in texts that were written or edited after the institution of child sacrifice fell into disrepute. But the reality is that Israelites practiced child sacrifice too. As I argue in chapter 6 of my book, the real motivations for the conquests were much more nefarious. It had more to do with land and the consolidation of political power than anything else.

Wouldn’t most Christians and Jews find this shocking?

Of course, and rightly so. It is shocking. I was shocked. But what I find even more shocking is the fact that some believers go to such great lengths to try to defend these genocides and moral atrocities. The same people who preach against the evils of abortion in the name of absolute, objective morality throw their absolute, objective morality out the window in order to defend the child-murders of an ancient tribe who thought they were doing the will of God. That’s what’s most shocking to me.

I was raised that the Bible was the literally perfect, “inerrant” word of God. What you are saying sure calls into question this point of view.

I was raised to view the Bible in the same way, and it was my faith in the Bible that led me to study it. My confidence in its veracity is what led me to study it critically, assuming it would stand up to the test. Eventually I had to be honest about the facts and acknowledge that it couldn’t stand up.

You’ve been accused of sleeping with the enemy, so to speak. Aren’t you just giving ammunition to the enemies of faith?

The truth is the truth. I can’t change what the truth is. If some groups want to use the truth as ammunition against other groups, that’s their prerogative. I think that the truth should be used as ammunition against fundamentalist varieties of Christianity and Zionist Judaism, because such strands of the faith wreak so much havoc on the world. If they can use lead bullets to defend their ideologies, I think that justifies using truth-bullets to put as many holes as possible in their propaganda.

If believers can be blind to something as concrete as polytheism or human sacrifice in the Bible, what other cultural fragments may be there — with God’s name on them?

Well, there’s no escaping culture, whether it’s the ancient culture of Palestinian Judaism or modern cultures. All of our knowledge will always be shaped by cultural factors. Many Christians will be surprised to learn that much of Jesus’ teaching is derived from a standard script that scholars call “Jewish apocalyptic” (I talk about this in chapter 8 of my book). Jesus’ thinking was just as culturally conditioned as every other perspective in and outside the Bible. But that doesn’t mean it’s useless or irrelevant as a result. We need to appropriate his insights critically, but once we do, I think we’ll find a wealth of resources in there that transcend the limits of Jewish apocalyptic.

Is this, as Sam Harris called it, “The End of Faith?”

One thing that the New Atheists and fundamentalist Christians share is this either/or logic. Either Christianity is true, or it isn’t. And if it isn’t, then it’s useless. I don’t buy into that simplistic paradigm.

When we’re talking about an ultimate truth that may or may not lie beyond the metaphysical iron curtain, we’re talking about a “truth” that is very different from the kind of truths that can be verified or falsified by scientific procedures. Talk about this ultimate truth, or “God-talk” as theologians call it, is always going to be conditioned by the limits of human knowledge on this side of the curtain. As Wittgenstein put it, the limits of language are coterminous with the limits of the world. But if there is anything meaningful about our existence, it lies beyond those limits, and speaking truthfully about what lies beyond the limits of language cannot by definition entail speaking about what we can demonstrate to be true empirically.

Truthful God-talk is poetry, not science — evocative, not descriptive. “Faith” is what we have when we live our lives as if they were meaningful, and Christianity offers us one language that helps us do that. Like any language, of course, there are different dialects, accents and vocabularies. Just as with English speakers, some Christians get irony, metaphor and humor, and others don’t. Moreover, just as languages evolve to adapt to new realities and new knowledge, religions do the same, and rightly so, whether practitioners acknowledge it or not.

How should Christians read the Bible in light of this kind of scholarship?

Between the lines. That’s how they should read the Bible. Christians need to learn to appropriate our tradition’s God-talk both critically and constructively. As I argue in chapter 1 of my book, the Bible is an argument with itself. It doesn’t have one viewpoint, but in the Bible you’ll find actual disputes between different personalities about the meaning of it all.

To be a Jew or Christian, to be a part of that tradition, is to participate in the argument. It’s to join in. You can take up a position represented by Jesus, or by the Teacher in Ecclesiastes, which is sharply at odds with the two other major schools of thought in the Bible. (I’ve often said that if Ecclesiastes wasn’t in the Bible, I wouldn’t be able to call myself a Christian on most days.) Or you can come up with a new position. But to be a member of the faith community is to participate in the discussion.

I am a Christian because I believe that what our predecessors have said continues to be important to the discussion, even if what they said is sometimes dead wrong. Christians need to understand that it’s OK to disagree with the Bible; but, in doing so, it’s not OK to pretend like we’re not indebted to our predecessors, even when we disagree with them.

Fred Plumer at the Center for Progressive Christianity says, “Most of the creedal things we have been preaching and teaching in our churches have not had solid scholarly support for over 50 years (actually 100 years but [this knowledge] only got into the seminaries in the last 50). And we in the Church have not done the work required nor have we had the courage to share what so many of us have known.” It sounds like you agree. Is this changing? Is it a generational thing?

Well, I hope it’s changing. It may be a generational thing. But I’m a realist. As much as I would like to see the end of fundamentalism, I am dubious that we ever will. I suspect there will always be fundamentalists and revivals of fundamentalism. Fundamentalism is very attractive because it’s easy. It provides pat answers, and it’s much easier to navigate life with answers, even bad ones, than to try to wade through all of this ambiguity. For that reason, I am a bit pessimistic about our prospects.

Of course, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t strive to struggle against such simplistic ideologies and the dangers they represent. But we don’t engage in the struggle because we’re necessarily going to win. We do it because it’s right.
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Old February 6th, 2018 #16
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Default Blood ritual is fundamental to Judaism.

Holy Atrocities and Judaism

A dominant theme of both ancient Hebrew and subsequent Jewish culture is the Holy Atrocity. The ancient Hebrews, most often acting upon direct orders from LORD God, exterminated entire ethnic groups, tribes and nationalities. Men, women, children, and livestock were slaughtered, cities burned, and artwork destroyed. Sometimes LORD God directed the Hebrews to massacre each other, and sometimes others attacked LORD God's people. (26)

Animal Sacrifice and the Third Temple

Many Americans associate the ritual killing of animals and the spattering and smearing of their blood with Satanism. But in fact ritual killing of animals and the spattering and smearing of their blood is a fundamental part of Judaism.

MISHNAH. … The slaughtering of the bullock and the he-goat
… their blood requires sprinkling between the staves [of the ark],
on the veil, and on the golden altar …

— Babylonian Talmud

Human Sacrifice, the Talmud, and the Moloch Problem

No one today seriously suggests present-day Jews sacrifice children to Moloch. Moloch (sometimes spelled "Molech") was an Old Testament god whom the Hebrews worshipped from time to time, and to whom they sacrificed their children. The Babylonian Talmud, however, still permits Jews to sacrifice children to Moloch — under certain conditions.

LORD God Accepts Human Sacrifice
First, let's get perspective. Some mistakenly believe human sacrifice is forbidden in the Old Testament. Certainly, some of the prophets railed against it. But in at least one book, LORD God accepts human sacrifice. And in another book, LORD God is appeased by human sacrifice.

Circumcision, Talmud Style

Many American male babies are circumcised by medical procedure shortly after birth. However, Orthodox Judaism prescribes circumcision as a religious ritual, to be performed according to strict Talmudic laws. According to those laws, the man who circumcises the infant, the mohel, must suck the infant's bleeding penis with his mouth.

America Under the Talmud: Will It Work for US?
by Carol A. Valentine

The Babylonian Talmud

THE JEWISH RELIGION Its Influence Today Formerly Titled THE PLOT AGAINST CHRISTIANITY by Elizabeth Dilling


The Pharisees, the Talmud, and Modern Judaism
The Missing Link
The Babylonian Talmud, Sole Authority
Why Was It So Often Burned?
Babylonian Talmud — the Law
Was Christ Just to Pharisees?
Bible Versus Oral Law
The Babylonian Talmud
Talmud — Six Main Division
. The Talmud Reviled
Emperor Hadrian and the Talmud
The Popes and the Talmud
The Talmud at the Stake
The Talmud and Martin Luther, the Father of Protestantism
Luther's Last Sermon

The Talmud and Bible Believers
Talmudic Anti-Christianity
Christianity Calls from Hell
Incest Preferable to Christianity
Death from Snakebite Preferable
Jesus and the High Priest's Privy
More Lies to Fool Us
Jesus Knew the Talmud
The Talmud and Mary, Mother of Jesus
Christ as "Balaam"
The 18 Benedictions
The Talmud — Five Deaths to Jesus

Judaism — Anti-Gentilism and Exploitation of Non-Jews
Articles Lost By Gentiles
Wine Touched By Gentiles
Gentiles Cast in a Pit
Non-Jews — "The People Who Are Like An Ass"
Always Make Money
Gentiles Are "Beasts"
Non-Jews — No Property Rights
Gentiles Must Not Rest, Even on Mondays
Goring One's Ox
In Law Suits, Cheat the Gentile
Gentiles Must Suffer to Make Jews the Messiah
Gentile Babies Defile
Swearing Falsely — the Kol Nidre
Robbery, Stealing, Murder — Approved Against Gentiles
Cheating a Gentile Out of Wages
Sodomy and Killing a Gentile
Kill the Gentile Who Studies the Torah
Accidental Killing of Jews

Talmudic Immorality, Asininity and Pornography: The Reprobate Mind
From a Roof
Incest with Lot
Harlots and Dogs
Permissible Adultery and Intercourse With the Dead
The Jewish Talmud and Legally Murdering Your Neighbor
Ten "Innocent" Murderers
"Mercy" Killings Approved
Cursing and Striking Parents
The Talmud Book of Gittin and Some Health Remedies
Use of the Bible for Asininity and Obscenity
Farming Inferior for Jews
Talmud Instructions for the Sabbath
Moving a Door Key
The Sabbath Louse-Hunt
Sabbath Intercourse
Talmud — Juvenile Birth Control and the "Two Hairs" Test for Puberty
More Talmudic "Wisdom"
Virginity on a Monetary Scale
Sodomy Approved
The Talmud Today

Judaism Not Monotheistic
Blasphemy Approved
Jews the Messiah
The Jewish Cabala
Cabalistic Hasidism
The Cabala and God
Theoretical Cabala
Practical Cabala
Transmigration of Souls
The Zohar, Principal Work of the Cabala
"Glorification of Man"
Procreation is "God"
Sholem; "Divine" Talmudists; "Holy Communion"
The Cabala and the World
Letters Create the World — Not God
Cabala Exalts the Jew
The Cabala — Sefer Raziel
The Cabala — Sefer Yetzirah

Judaism and Paganism
Babylon the Symbol
Talmudic Jewish Months Are Babylonian
Judaism — Tree Worship
Trees Today
Female Procreative Goddess
Ezekiel on Jerusalem Abominations and Tammuz
Today's "Wailings for Tammuz"
The "Sacred" Star of David
Judaism — Star Worship
Stars in Talmudic Idolatry
Star-Worship in the Jewish Calendar
Astrology and Moon-Worship
"Father of Lies"
Isaiah and New Moon Days
Blessing of the Sun
"Once in 28 Years Sun at Point of Creation"

Demonology of the Pharisees
Jewish Magic
Tashlik and Kapparah
Lilith — Favorite Demoness
To Fig
Spirits and Cemeteries
Jewish Necromancy
The Shulhan Aruch
Ritual Murder
Murdering Children
The Fire Bums For The Children
The Moloch Sacrifice Climaxes
Lacroix on Moloch
Judaism Permits Child Sacrifices to Moloch

Jews Not a Race
Christ Born of Judah
Jews Not "Semites"
Jews Never Pure Semites
Jews a Non-Racial Pharisee Sect
Why Do They "Look Jewish"?
Exhibits A-H

Jews God's "Chosen"?
"Brotherhood" With Anti-Christianity?

The Jews and Marxism — Socialism — Communism

Moses Hess — Jewish Marxist and Progenitor of Zionism
Hess and Christianity
Jewish Cover-up
Attempted Cover-up on the Jewish Bund
Exhibits I. J. K
Jewish Marxist-Zionist Minority Power
National Workmen's Committee of 1915
American Jewish Committee
Rabbi Wise
American Jewish Congress
Majority of Jews in Zionist-Marxist Organizations
The Jewish Labor Committee
B'nai B'rith Gloats Again
Jewish People's Committee
Poale Zion
Marxist Parties in Israel
The Jews and the Communization of Russia
The Jewish Bankers
The Kaiser
Jews in Russian Revolution of 1905
Rutenberg and the Russian Revolutions
Father Gapon
More Jewish Manipulations in the United States
Treaty With Russia Broken
Ford "Apologizes" to Jewry
The Russian Revolution — Suppressed State Department Documents
The Revolution Begins
Enter Kerensky
Jewish Financing Long Planned
Furstenberg at Stockholm
The Bolsheviks Take Over
Consequent "Anti-Semitism"
The Mysterious Ovdendyke Report
The Jews Gloat

Modern Jewish "Anti-Communism"
Foreign Changes
Prophecy and the Developing Anti-Christ World Government
The Anti-Christ
The Jerusalem Temple Rebuilding
Now Comes the United Nations
The Developing "Babylonian" World Government
Isaiah on the Anti-Christ
The Jewish "Messianic" Reign
More About the Jewish "Messianic" Era
Chad Gadyah
Babylon and Israel
Christ's Identification Marks
Table of Exhibits — 1 through 302, A through K


Only force rules. Force is the first law - Adolf H. Man has become great through struggle - Adolf H. Strength lies not in defense but in attack - Adolf H.
Old February 6th, 2018 #17
Emily Henderson
Intellijintly Dezined
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Pre-Rapture, USA ⚛️
Posts: 3,871
Emily Henderson

^^That is interesting reading, but in perusing her site there are some things that make me scratch my head. She's denying there is a 'Jewish look' or phenotype, and stating Pharisees are some sort of non Semites. That doesn't jibe with the fact that Pharisee in its Semitic form means “the separated ones", and it first appeared during the time of John Hyrcanus in 135 BC. They were Jews who were strict and also hypocritical, hence the whole narrative of Jebus knocking all their shit over in the temple, his 'Father's house' (Jew).

What she states about their mix with nig and Asian is correct.

Interestingly the offering of children to Moloch was the 'Holocaust'.

'Holocaust' is a word of Greek origin,means a completely (holos) burnt (kaustos) sacrificial offering.

The babies were a burnt offering to Molech or Moloch, god of the Canaanites with the bull's head. They pounded drums to drown out the screaming.

Rahab was Jesus' Canaanite great grandma. Nig.

It's typical Jew that they lied and said there were jewish children burnt by Whites in, no, there were Jewish children burnt by Jews in makeshift bull's head ovens.
"Inquiry and doubt are essential checks against deception."--Richard Carrier


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